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[Geonz]

I agree with you, life is full of "circles" to exclude and include -- to elevate and devalue ourselves and others. So, who and what is a cyclist? Is ANYone who rides a bike a cyclist? To me, that is like saying ANYone who throws a football in the backyard with their kids on Sunday afternoons is a football player; ANYone who jumps into a pool and doggie paddles across the pool length is a swimmer; ANYone who shoots hoops in their driveway is a basketball player. OK, I may be wrong, but to me, they are people having fun playing a sport, not necessarily defined by that sport. As for riding a bike, there are times when I am riding a bike and I am a bike rider -- I am goofing around with my kids in the neighborhood, riding my bike to the grocery store, or riding a smooth bike trail with my friends. Other times, I am a cyclist -- I am riding for fitness, endurance, and training. I am working hard and pushing my body to its limits (yep, give me a circle to place myself in), and I am presenting myself and my sport in the highest regard because I am maximizing my efforts and displaying respect for myself and my equipment, other people, automobiles, and the laws of my state. I am no longer "just riding my bike" but I am athlete and a professional (if only in my own mind). Yes, I am a bike rider, having fun and following the rules of the road, but I am also a cyclist because I train and work hard at riding my bike. IN MY OPINION, most everyone can ride a bike, but not everyone can be a cyclist. Ok, call me a snob, or any other form of snobbery ... I will be the first to claim it as truth ... but please don't PM me just because my "circle" is different from yours. Life is full of "circles" and that will never change.

So, you have a logical issue with saying ANYBODY who throws a football... I have that problem with your global ANYONE who ever uses a sidewalk not being "an athlete" "maximizing my efforts" etc. etc. The rather obvious implication is that I don't train, don't work hard, and don't follow the rules of the road because I get on a sidewalk when it makes sense - since you say that you are a cyclist because you train and work hard at riding your bike. If I am not a ;cyclist, that woudl imply that I don't.

However, i am simply positive that you work harder and train harder than I ever will. *That's* what makes you 'More" of a cyclist... at least a certain kind... *not* that you never cross off the road to go slower for a little while.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Instead of people being "more" or "less" of a cyclist, how about just saying there are different kinds of cyclists?: Professional cyclists, competition cyclists, fitness cyclists, and purely recreational cyclists. One could be more than one type too, like a competition mtn bike racer who rides in the park with their kids on the weekend! (maybe even going on the sidewalk! )

[roguedog]

What is a cyclist?

This has actually been on my mind lately and something I'm trying to figure out.

I'm new to "cycling" though I've been riding bikes since I was like 5. For me it was just about the only alternative left since I hate running and I've gotten really sick of going to the gym. So I just started... and I found out I enjoy it.

However, I haven't ridden since Tday with holidays, family and other social stuff going on. In that time I've been contemplating this question since I feel all this guilt or feeling like a "slacker" since I'm not out there doing my 100 miles a week like some folks. In some sense this has been good cuz it gives me perspective.

When did biking become cycling to me? When did I need to don my fancy clothes (of which I don't have many really) to just ride to work?? I mean I went to UC Davis for god's sake and spent (cough) all my college years biking around in jeans and sweats in the friggin wind, rain and cold on a used bike from the bike auction. I didn't even have a car for 2-3 years. Walking or riding were my only alternatives.

Then I was reading thru Rivendell's site and their pragmatic approach to cycling/biking was really fresh air to me.

"Special clothing just to ride a bike? Are you sure?

(This is kind of a long rant.)

If you have any doubts that you can ride in normal clothing, consider that 200 million people worldwide do it every day. So it comes down to clothing for "serious, performance cycling," and that's when the clothing starts to look and feel funny. Based on the snug-fitting clothing of the famous comic book superheros, cycling clothing has continued to devolve to its current state, which is: "

So yesterday morning, I just jumped on my little mtn bike with my jeans and geeky reflective cuff velcro thingy and went to work.

What am saying.. rambling? I guess ...that we are privileged to live in a country that gives us the choice to be cyclists. And that as long as I am aware of that, I've defined it for myself. I've defined my "circles." Will I keep buying stuff. Ya betcha cuz I love shopping And will I train for the Terra Bella and the Cindy.. yup as much as my life will allow me at the moment.

But.. I have to remember that cycling is one of my hobbies and I'm a damn, friggin lucky a$$ bastard to have that choice.

I'll leave this morning's contemplation with this photo. The lady in the picture below has my respect and awe. I took this when my tour bus had an engine problem outside of Shanghai. While we were just wandering around stretching our legs, this lady just came riding up on the opposite side of road, toting her load and then quietly just disappeared into the horizon. She "trains" everyday because she has no choice. And she's definitely not a a weight weeny! And god knows how far she has to go everyday..

This picture just makes me laugh at myself but also makes me feel very lucky.

Enjoy...keep on pedaling (I'm off to work .. in my jeans)

[CycleChic06]

Ok, I really really really didn't mean to set off that discussion of "what is a cyclist" It was meant rhetorically. I though it was clear when I listed the definition from websters that anyone who cycles is a cyclist. My point was we that we shouldn't bother categorizing and giving a name to what we are and what we do. We are all on this board becuase we share an interest in riding bicycles. We are all different levels of experience and invovlement, but all with one purpose. Please try to remember this and lets get back to discussing the relevant things like how far we've ridden today or how many scars we have from falling with clipless pedals or if we prefer sports beans over bananas...

[pooks]

This reminds me of something I read on another site. A bunch of cyclists stopped at a small grocery out in the country to buy water, and had to walk by a bunch of guys with Harleys to go inside.

They all started talking and laughing, and the guys on Harleys were a lot more accepting of the guys in spandex than they feared, until one of the cyclists referred to himself as a "biker."

One of the big Harley guys growled, "Son, WE'RE the bikers. YOU'RE the bikEEs."

Badabing.

[ribbit_zap]

I just have to say that the last part of CycleChic's post from above made me grin I agree with Lisa's post from above. I think there are just different types of cyclist. Good point Lisa!

[five one]

Not tech savvy enough to insert the image, but this is one of my favorite comics that addressed biker/cyclist issue.

http://rhymeswithorange.com/home.php?date=20020507

[LBTC]

hmmmm.....all those circles, and I'm not exempt.

I am a beer snob. Yes, it's true. I just won't drink it if I just don't love it. No Bud, Labatt's, Canadian, Miller, etc in my house! If it isn't Sleeman's, Granville Island, Bowen Island or some micro brew that the average person has never heard of, I just won't drink it. Thanks for the offer, but, uh, no thanks.

heh.

I'm also not a photographer. I'm a photo enhusiast.

What the heck, everything else is labeled!!

Hugs and butterflies,
~T~

[guest1]

So, you have a logical issue with saying ANYBODY who throws a football... I have that problem with your global ANYONE who ever uses a sidewalk not being "an athlete" "maximizing my efforts" etc. etc. The rather obvious implication is that I don't train, don't work hard, and don't follow the rules of the road because I get on a sidewalk when it makes sense - since you say that you are a cyclist because you train and work hard at riding your bike. If I am not a ;cyclist, that woudl imply that I don't.

However, i am simply positive that you work harder and train harder than I ever will. *That's* what makes you 'More" of a cyclist... at least a certain kind... *not* that you never cross off the road to go slower for a little while.

the sidewalk thing: if it is ILLEGAL to ride on the sidewalk, then I say don't do it because it is a TERRIBLE way to represent the sport of cycling! if it is LEGAL and the BEST METHOD to get from point A to point B, then use it because that makes you a VERY WISE cyclist!

[stacie]

I listen to the evening news while cooking dinner. Reports of a cyclist hit by a car stop me in my tracks. I find myself hanging on every word trying to identify, is this a cyclist or someone on a bike? Without thought I try to identify if this was someone who was aware of the laws and following them. Yes, I try to identify if it is someone in "my group" or not. I am struck harder if someone I consider a cyclist has been injured. It's not that I care less for the other person it's just that it feels more like it could have been me. I can relate to this person and their level of risk more.
At my work, we are in the process of creating small groups of people with related interests. We have groups who like to work out before daylight in the morning. We have a tri-athlete group. We have a group of seniors, people who like to cook, a book club, a group of attorneys who drink wine and ride bikes......The goal is not to exclude people but to create a sense of family, community. We are pack animals. We like to belong. We enjoy being around people who have something in common with us. We enjoy meeting people with shared interest. Why must we feel that creating communities is excluding someone who doesnt share our interests? I belong to so many different communities. I rarely blend these groups together. I enjoy hanging with my cyclists friends on some occasions and my foodie friends on others. If you are not part of this group it just means we don't share this interest.
Don't let your emotions get in the way of healthy debate. Isn't the idea here to get together a bunch of people from different places with different ideas. Isn't it more interesting if we disagree, argue and debate? One group you can exclude me from is the one where everyone agrees with everything I say.
Just my 2 cents.

[Crankin]

OK, I laughed about the snobbiness of Marines. My son, who is a Marine, is home before he heads out to the "Hollywood" base at Camp Pendleton. He did go to Parris Island, he's a machine gunner, and he just got done with 2.5 years in the "Fast Force," a unit you get chosen for on the basis of an intelligence test. He definitely feels a bit "superior," but when I annoy him about not finishing college and become an officer, he gets really mad! It's the same thing. He is a major cyclist, by the "snobby" definition, but I know he would not make fun of anyone who rides. He was probably the most encouraging person to me when I started. My former exchange student, who is a professional racer in Europe, rode twice with me last summer. He also was just so encouraging about my progress, since i was toodling along on my mtb on the street when he met me. So, I guess what I'm trying to sy, is that we all have our definitions of who fits in a group and who doesn't. I try not to be a bike snob, and I actually like helping beginners, but I know that sometimes I am.

[Duck on Wheels]

A thought that just occurred to me ... Maybe we should take this thread back to where it started. Seems to me the question was whether it's ok to flame someone on this forum as long as the flame gets sent as a PM. Was that the question? If so, then my vote is "No, it's not OK." I'd say it's ok to disagree, preferably out in the open and politely. It's also ok to ask whether something we found hurtful was meant that way, and that might be an appropriate message for a PM, at least as a first step. But it's not ok to flame.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Seems to me the question was whether it's ok to flame someone on this forum as long as the flame gets sent as a PM. Was that the question? If so, then my vote is "No, it's not OK." I'd say it's ok to disagree, preferably out in the open and politely. It's also ok to ask whether something we found hurtful was meant that way, and that might be an appropriate message for a PM, at least as a first step. But it's not ok to flame.

I agree with all that. And I think "politely" is a key word here.

[Tuckervill]

One of the big Harley guys growled, "Son, WE'RE the bikers. YOU'RE the bikEEs."

Along those lines, there was a recent headline in my local paper:

"Cyclist, 16, killed on road"

Oh no! It really was more of a tragedy than at first glance, because the boy was killed when his own father crossed over the centerline on the country road near their home, and hit the boy with his truck.

But the boy was riding a MOTORcycle, not a BIcycle.

I think they were wrong to use the word "cyclist" to describe a motorcycle rider, but that just may be because of my perspective as a cyclist.

Karen

[Pax]

I listen to the evening news while cooking dinner. Reports of a cyclist hit by a car stop me in my tracks. I find myself hanging on every word trying to identify, is this a cyclist or someone on a bike? Without thought I try to identify if this was someone who was aware of the laws and following them. Yes, I try to identify if it is someone in "my group" or not. I am struck harder if someone I consider a cyclist has been injured. It's not that I care less for the other person it's just that it feels more like it could have been me. I can relate to this person and their level of risk more.
At my work, we are in the process of creating small groups of people with related interests. We have groups who like to work out before daylight in the morning. We have a tri-athlete group. We have a group of seniors, people who like to cook, a book club, a group of attorneys who drink wine and ride bikes......The goal is not to exclude people but to create a sense of family, community. We are pack animals. We like to belong. We enjoy being around people who have something in common with us. We enjoy meeting people with shared interest. Why must we feel that creating communities is excluding someone who doesnt share our interests? I belong to so many different communities. I rarely blend these groups together. I enjoy hanging with my cyclists friends on some occasions and my foodie friends on others. If you are not part of this group it just means we don't share this interest.
Don't let your emotions get in the way of healthy debate. Isn't the idea here to get together a bunch of people from different places with different ideas. Isn't it more interesting if we disagree, argue and debate? One group you can exclude me from is the one where everyone agrees with everything I say.
Just my 2 cents.

I agree that circles are inevitable, we meet up with people who share our common interests...it becomes problematic when we use our circle to denigrate others because they're not in the right circle.

TE is a circle, and a special one at that, I would consider it a negative thing though if people from TE made denigrating comments to other women who ride because they aren't member of TE or because they don't participate in TD/triathlons/racing/etc. It's the "snob factor" that sets my teeth on edge.