got a private message

[stacie]

A statement was made. Some agree some don't. I believe we are so afraid of being labeled a ***** that we don't disagree, be assertive or be bold. We can't have healthy debates if we are so worried about stepping on someone's toes. This entire argument has been because someone could get their feelings hurt if someone happened to exclude them and then ridicule them for not being part of the group? If you disagree with someone, argue your point. I actually think this forum would be more interesting if we had some healthy passionate, debates. Please read Reviving Ophelia by Mary Pipher.

[Pax]

A statement was made. Some agree some don't. I believe we are so afraid of being labeled a ***** that we don't disagree, be assertive or be bold. We can't have healthy debates if we are so worried about stepping on someone's toes. This entire argument has been because someone could get their feelings hurt if someone happened to exclude them and then ridicule them for not being part of the group? If you disagree with someone, argue your point. I actually think this forum would be more interesting if we had some healthy passionate, debates. Please read Reviving Ophelia by Mary Pipher.

Some may have felt denigrated by the implication that they aren't "real cyclists" as stated below.

some people ride bikes

some people are cyclists

some people are roadies - they ride on the road

some people are mountain bikers - they ride on trails

there are those who do both while racing -- they are cyclocross racers

there are no sidewalk cyclists

some people ride bikes -- please do NOT confuse them with cyclists!

I truly enjoy a rousing argument and am not usually concerned about "stepping on toes". However as I've read various posts on TE, this board seems much "softer" in that area and I try to respect the culture of the board I'm visiting.

[Geonz]

It is denigrating - as well as pretty hysterically absurd - to be told not to confuse a person with a cyclist because they have a different opinion.


In fact, it pretty much prevents actual debate about the cycling issue.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

It is denigrating - as well as pretty hysterically absurd - to be told not to confuse a person with a cyclist because they have a different opinion.


In fact, it pretty much prevents actual debate about the cycling issue.

I don't know, I simply found it mildly snobbish (I can be mildly snobbish about lots of things too, including biking). Several people have already expressed that they did not find anything offensive at all in the post. Clearly the post is viewed differently by different people. That's not unusual. It's ok to enter into discussion that disagrees with the poster's opinion. That's what the forum is about- exchanging various ideas and opinions. There's probably nothing we would all agree on.
What makes this case different is that apparently someone sent a nasty private message in response to the post. Just how nasty it was we will never know, but if it was indeed nasty and rude well then that was inappropriate and uncalled for. It's healthy to disagree and argue one's point, but I think it's NOT ok to be toxically nasty and/or attack people personally. In my opinion, using the cover of a PM in order to get away with saying nasty things to another member without it being openly seen is abusing the forum.

[Geonz]

the sidewalk thing: if it is ILLEGAL to ride on the sidewalk, then I say don't do it because it is a TERRIBLE way to represent the sport of cycling! if it is LEGAL and the BEST METHOD to get from point A to point B, then use it because that makes you a VERY WISE cyclist!

Welp, it's legal. I'm still rolling my eyes at your condescension - actually, I have no reason to assume you train harder than I do and are "more of a cyclist" even by *your* definition. My 8o00+ miles last year didn't all come on the sidewalks.

But... here's the bigger issue:

I really love cycling - and not just so I can win things. I think it can improve the whole planet and so many of the people in it.

Are you assuming that I like (or even accept) the fact that to keep my skin, I have to negotiate sidewalks instead of being reasonably safe on the roads? If that's why you hold sidewalkers in contempt... what are you doing about it?

I mean, besides being condescending to people riding on the sidewalks?

Does that make the roads safer? Do you honestly think that brings those people out onto the roads?

No, in fact, it makes those sidewalker think "oh, okay, I'm just not *brave* enough for this. They are. Must be something wrong with me, not with the way the roads are designed. I can't expect better. Roads were made for cars."

Yes, one of the reasons I don't like riding on the sidewalk is because I don't like the message it sends to drivers or other cyclists or possible future cyclists.

I'm on our town's Bicycling and Pedestrian Advisory commission, I'm on the board of the League of Illinois Bicyclists; I write letters, I've been on the telly. ...but more than all that, IMO, I *ride* visibly and often, and do my utmost to get others to do so by leading beginner rides and just being a "normal" person who rides a bicycle to show it's a feasible option.

I want our roads to be places where cyclists can ride safely and efficiently. Right now that ain't the case. Some places, it is for people who have the courage and conviction and speed to negotiate the traffic - but so many, many people think that there's no need to make the roads safe for cyclists. They think that there's no reason to divert funds or inconvenience motorists for a bunch of Lance wannabees - let's face it, we wouldn't do that for hockey players, would we? Why should the public support your recreational pursuit?

I love cycling . I think it can do far more good than the benefits that athletics provide. There are so many current Stupid Problems that bicycling helps with, either a little or a lot, either individually (health) or societally (let's slow down and talk to each other!) or environmentally, or.. or..

HOwever, cyclists are a barely significant minority - even here. On the third hand, I talk to so many people who would *love* to ride more, either for fitness or instead of driving - but there are barriers.

Do you want to be one of those barriers?




... my most recent motorbiker interaction: pulled up to the Blarney Stone (only place for food in Ivesdale) as three motorbikes pulled up.
"Lance!"
We just grinned, went in... and then met the same group at teh Sadorus Pub which was our next stop... yea, our ration of riding to drinking was a little higher than theirs

[guest1]

Welp, it's legal. I'm still rolling my eyes at your condescension - actually, I have no reason to assume you train harder than I do and are "more of a cyclist" even by *your* definition. My 8o00+ miles last year didn't all come on the sidewalks.

But... here's the bigger issue:

I really love cycling - and not just so I can win things. I think it can improve the whole planet and so many of the people in it.

Are you assuming that I like (or even accept) the fact that to keep my skin, I have to negotiate sidewalks instead of being reasonably safe on the roads? If that's why you hold sidewalkers in contempt... what are you doing about it?

I mean, besides being condescending to people riding on the sidewalks?

Does that make the roads safer? Do you honestly think that brings those people out onto the roads?

No, in fact, it makes those sidewalker think "oh, okay, I'm just not *brave* enough for this. They are. Must be something wrong with me, not with the way the roads are designed. I can't expect better. Roads were made for cars."

Yes, one of the reasons I don't like riding on the sidewalk is because I don't like the message it sends to drivers or other cyclists or possible future cyclists.

I'm on our town's Bicycling and Pedestrian Advisory commission, I'm on the board of the League of Illinois Bicyclists; I write letters, I've been on the telly. ...but more than all that, IMO, I *ride* visibly and often, and do my utmost to get others to do so by leading beginner rides and just being a "normal" person who rides a bicycle to show it's a feasible option.

I want our roads to be places where cyclists can ride safely and efficiently. Right now that ain't the case. Some places, it is for people who have the courage and conviction and speed to negotiate the traffic - but so many, many people think that there's no need to make the roads safe for cyclists. They think that there's no reason to divert funds or inconvenience motorists for a bunch of Lance wannabees - let's face it, we wouldn't do that for hockey players, would we? Why should the public support your recreational pursuit?

I love cycling . I think it can do far more good than the benefits that athletics provide. There are so many current Stupid Problems that bicycling helps with, either a little or a lot, either individually (health) or societally (let's slow down and talk to each other!) or environmentally, or.. or..

HOwever, cyclists are a barely significant minority - even here. On the third hand, I talk to so many people who would *love* to ride more, either for fitness or instead of driving - but there are barriers.

Do you want to be one of those barriers?




... my most recent motorbiker interaction: pulled up to the Blarney Stone (only place for food in Ivesdale) as three motorbikes pulled up.
"Lance!"
We just grinned, went in... and then met the same group at teh Sadorus Pub which was our next stop... yea, our ration of riding to drinking was a little higher than theirs

Good for you! I am sure you are proud of what you have accomplished and what you do as a cycling advocate. However, I sure hope your crown doesn't hurt your head TOO badly when you wear your cycling helmet!

[Geonz]

Good for you! I am sure you are proud of what you have accomplished and what you do as a cycling advocate. However, I sure hope your crown doesn't hurt your head TOO badly when you wear your cycling helmet!

Okay, okay, climbing down from my *own* little "I'm higher than you" elevation

Pax

[snapdragen]

Good for you! I am sure you are proud of what you have accomplished and what you do as a cycling advocate. However, I sure hope your crown doesn't hurt your head TOO badly when you wear your cycling helmet!

Okay, okay, climbing down from my *own* little "I'm higher than you" elevation

Pax

Well thank goodness, I thought I was going to have to put on my moderator crown....er hat.

[Eden]

Little anecdote:

Around here there was a rather tragic situation that emphasized who is a cyclist? A woman downtown was pushed under a bus and killed. The first reports that came out were that it was a cyclist riding on the side walk that caused the woman to fall. So what did everyone immediately think? It must have been one of those crazy messengers - see we told you cyclists were dangerous etc. Well when the whole story was reported it came out that the man and woman were having an arguement when he shoved her and she fell under the bus. The man then grabbed a bike from someone else and rode off to flee the scene. The media continued to report it as a cyclist killing a pedestrian. Was he a cyclist or a man with a bike? Could he have been both at different times?

Sometimes the different groups of cyclists around here tiff a bit over who is more justified to be on the road - whether or not we should have a helmet law (which was recently enacted) and who bike laws have the most effect on. In the end we just need to realize that cyclists are a varied community. We all have varied and valid reasons for riding a bike and no we aren't all going to automatically be friends or agree, but at least we can respect those who choose our mode of transportation. Who knows maybe next year that person who was afraid to venture off of the sidewalk will buy a new road bike and get the confidence to go out on the road. Maybe when I'm 98 1/2 and riding a tricycle I'll want to stay on the sidewalk and not ride faster than a walk..

[missymaya]

Roguedog,
Those are my thoughts exactly! We are pretty darn lucky to be able to discuss the definition of a "cyclist" and anything it entails and be able to do what we love to do, ride, as a hobbie and/or form of transportation, health, etc. I think someone already mentioned it, bicycle mag had an article, Invisible Riders, which is pretty good.
As for the PM, I take communicating through the net simarly to communicating to someone in person, it's just not cool to be insulting and offensive, in order to defend your argument. If someone has a problem with what's been said, politely confront and discuss the issue. No need to create more hate and anger; this world doesn't need anymore!
Remember, we're on this forum b/c we all relate in one particular subject: cycling, riding, bicycling, or whatever you wanna call it!