Church?

[btchance]

Years ago, I attended Temple during the High Holy Days with my then-BF. It was a progressive/reformist rabbi (a woman) and one of the topics for discussion was whether to continue services (it was at the Beverly Hills Hotel ballroom) when hotel workers may stage a strike outside for better wages.

She told this story:
A rabbi was on his way to Temple one day, and heard a baby crying. Looking into a window, he saw an unattend babe. He went in, and held the baby until it stopped crying and went to sleep. Meanwhile, all the townspeople were at the synagogue waiting for him. He never showed. After a while, they became upset and went frantically in search of him, wondering what happened. When they finally found him, sitting with a sleeping baby, they became angry at him for causing them to miss their services over such an insignificant event. He looked at them and said, "This child was in need and I came to help. Have you learned nothing from me? The acts of God and more important than the Words of God."

After the rabbi told the story, she explained that regardless of where one stood on the proposed strike, it was important to acknowledge the struggles of people fighting for a better life for themselvs and their families. And as Jews, they should all recognize that.
With that, she announced that should the strike happen, she would not cross the picket lines. She said, "If we have to, we'll pray on the beach in front of the ocean. It doesn't matter what building is above our heads, God can hear us. But always, Acts of Godliness are paramount."
I still remember that after all these years.
BTW, The strike was settled, and averted.

I love that, and it is so true.

I never went to church, but was always taught the correct way to treat other people, and to see the spirituality in the world around us. However, my hometown is extremely religious (14 square miles, over 20 churches in that area, maybe more than 30). If you didn't go to the correct church, many parent's wouldn't allow their kids to have anything to do with you. Their whole lives revolved around church and church functions. This made it very difficult growing up, going to parties, going shopping or to the movies, dating, and even discussions at lunch. This still puts a negative light on organized religion for me. I know it's not like that in other areas, but it, and my always questioning nature, makes it hard for me to have any desire to participate in church activities. I know it is a huge part of life for many people, and I'll always respect it, as long as they respect me for who I am and what I believe.

(eh, I hope this all came out right, and makes some element of sense)

[slinkedog]

I know it's not like that in other areas, but it, and my always questioning nature, makes it hard for me to have any desire to participate in church activities. I know it is a huge part of life for many people, and I'll always respect it, as long as they respect me for who I am and what I believe.

(eh, I hope this all came out right, and makes some element of sense)

Nothing wrong with a questioning nature in church, imho. If there's something wrong with it, then I need to get out, I guess.

All kidding aside, I do respect everyone's right to believe what they believe. Who the heck am I to think I can tell someone else what to think? All I know is that God (not church) kept me from killing myself, andthe good people in that church who loved me, just as I was, helped a lot.

[CR400]

I go to church almost every Sunday morning and evenings as well. Plus the mid week service on Thursday. I have gone to church all my life. I go not because I feel that I have to out of some religous duty but because I want to.

When I do ride on Sunday it is usually between services, or I will plan my rest days for Sunday and Thursday. We actually have a small group along with a race team at my church so we get in our road time it just isn't usually on Sunday. In fact my pastor is one of the biggest hammerheads I know, he does quite well in the races we do, for him 12+ races in a season is average. I'm still new so I don't race as often as the others. Usually we race on Saturday only but about two to three times a year we will all go to a sunday race or TT. We also host our own charity rides and one day tours.

Besides everytime I have missed church to ride my bike I have got into an accident, mostly small over the handle bar stuff, but still.

[Grog]

Besides everytime I have missed church to ride my bike I have got into an accident, mostly small over the handle bar stuff, but still.

Wow! Then it's probably better you don't loose faith!!!

[tygab]

Interesting topic indeed. I'm with Robyn, well indirectly anyway.
I was raised Jewish in central Illinois, so even though I was part of a thriving synogogue in town, I remember always being the only Jewish kid in the class, and almost yearly being asked to do a little talk on the Jewish holidays & customs. As a kid, I felt at once honored but also a bit burdened by this. Now I am thankful the teachers wanted me to share.

I have always felt more spiritual outside among natural settings and in truth do most of my deep thinking/praying there, but I do think the community of a religion has a purpose and as I'm getting older, I've come to appreciate that a bit more.

One of the things I love about Judaism, at least the way I interact with it, is kind of like what Robyn said - I have to think my own way through the journey. The temple I go to is not affiliated formally, having people from the 'big 3' backgrounds, and a reconstructionist bent.

My dad was Catholic growing up (I mean his childhood, not mine). I think he found more of a home in Judaism though and was/is active in my hometown congregation and I think of him as Jewish in practice if not in name... My husband is Catholic, and from an observant and religious family. They have always been very welcoming and when Christmas falls during Hanukkah, as it often has these last several years, we observe both, even at their home.

Most of my angst about formal religion comes from the ways I see it used to divide and make one group feel superior to others, or worse... I just don't get that and never will. But in the grand scheme of things I still think and hope, that is the exception & not the norm of religious institutions. After all, they too evolve...

[Fredwina]

I love that, and it is so true.
I know it's not like that in other areas, but it, and my always questioning nature, makes it hard for me to have any desire to participate in church activities.

That's one of the reasons I'm Episcopalian. We actually encourage people to think about their faith,(I think 3/4 of out folks started out as something else, myself included) and I like that we have all of God's people, and not just all of god white-middle class people. If you're still religious, but got turned off, find a different tent, so to speak. I think there is a reason for so many different religious expressions.
Bicycle related content : Our Rector points out that I'm the only parishioner who gets covered parking

[mimitabby]

YOU GUYS ARE ALL WONDERFUL!!

I cannot believe this conversation is happening. I was holding my breath on page one. Sheesh. Let it flow.

[slinkedog]

That's one of the reasons I'm Episcopalian. We actually encourage people to think about their faith,(I think 3/4 of out folks started out as something else, myself included) and I like that we have all of God's people, and not just all of god white-middle class people.

As I read these responses, it makes me sad to think that people's freedom of thought has been, or at least it is perceived as so, repressed in the church. I think if you read the words of Jesus, you will find that that's not what he was about.

[Fredwina]

As I read these responses, it makes me sad to think that people's freedom of thought has been, or at least it is perceived as so, repressed in the church. I think if you read the words of Jesus, you will find that that's not what he was about.

True. I always wonder how people Reconcile the "Meek and Mild" Jesus with one who overturns table at the temple.

[Bluetree]

***sigh***

[mimitabby]

It frightens me to think how much religion is incorporated into conservative U.S. politics.

And it amazes me how values/ideals such as tolerance, eliminating poverty and protecting the earth have suddenly become bad things to many evangelicals (and Fox News, too).

I am not a religious person, but I always thought that if God/Christ/Allah/Buddha et al, registered with anyone it would be the Green Party.

Yes, not only that, he believed that you should pay your taxes.

[mtbdarby]

It frightens me to think how much religion is incorporated into conservative U.S. politics.

And it amazes me how values/ideals such as tolerance, eliminating poverty and protecting the earth have suddenly become bad things to many evangelicals (and Fox News, too).

I am not a religious person, but I always thought that if God/Christ/Allah/Buddha et al, registered with anyone it would be the Green Party.

Our constitution was based off of Christian beliefs (not denomonation specific), so it really isn't, or in my opinion, shouldn't be a surprise that religion is incorporated into our politics. What frightens me is that we're now trying to eliminate it. There's a saying I remember from my college days: "Stand for something or you'll fall for anything". I think there's a whole generation of people who don't believe in anything and are focusing more on material and selfish matters struggling to find their place/purpose in this world. Call it God/Christ/Allah/Buddha/Spiritualism, etc. but I do feel that's missing from our culture these days. Just my rambling thoughts, hope I don't offend.

Pam, I would LOVE to go to Rick Warren's church! I think he's a great speaker. Have you ever gone there?

[ridethewind]

Our constitution was based off of Christian beliefs (not denomonation specific), so it really isn't, or in my opinion, shouldn't be a surprise that religion is incorporated into our politics. What frightens me is that we're now trying to eliminate it.

There is a reason the founding fathers placed the Establishment Clause in the Constitution. They had seen first hand the difficulties caused by too much of an entanglement between government and religion. Religion and government have their proper spheres. Too much entanglement is bad, as is the complete disregard of religion. The balance struck by the founding fathers has worked well for over 200 years. I don't think it should be tampered with.

____________
Jean

[bcipam]

Pam, I would LOVE to go to Rick Warren's church! I think he's a great speaker. Have you ever gone there?

It's funny you say that... Have actually been to Saddleback a number of times - it' one of the local mega churches and actually competes with my Church (Coast Hills). Warren is a dynamic speaker but there is something about him I well just don't like. I liked my old pastor who was quiet, and sweet, but very passionate about his faith. Saddleback is quite the powerhouse and many of my friends attend services there
* * *

One thing I am concerned about that folks equate conservative religion with not being tolerant, or compassionate etc. My church gives a large portion of its collected money to help the poor. It established "Hope's House" a retreat for battered and abuse women. It regularly makes trips to Mexico to build houses and treat the needy with medical care. I give as much as I can to a number of charities and do support special governmental programs for those in need. These beliefs do not just belong to liberals. In addition, what is tolerance? I hear all too often conservatives are not tolerate but liberals only "tolerant" viewpoints that support their own. Both sides have their own agenda. Tolerance BTW does not mean condoning or accepting someone or something it means to allow without prohibiting or opposing. In other words, I believe abortion is wrong however, I tolerate one's belief to make that choice.

I don't think Fox News speaks for the conservative right. Most of those guys (especially Bill O'Reilly and Rush Limbaugh) are hacks. Talk about trolls!

Bottom line the evangelical church is not filled with only right wing conservatives, there are people there from all walks of life, both right and left (I'm in the middle but have been registered Democrat most of my life). Worshipping God is far above any petty( or not so petty) earthly issue. Again, I think churches by and large have gotten a bad rap. There are all sorts, ones to suit any needs, thoughts and desire as long as in your heart you are there to worship God. I agree church and state should be separate; religion and politics are definitely two separate issues.

[Trek420]

slinkedog "I think if you read the words of Jesus, you will find that that's not what he was about."

The Jewish gal chimes in, I'm just a little Jewish kid from Petaluma, not raised observant or anything (although my Grandfather was a Cantor) but anywho from what I've read/heard/learned this Jesus guy was a pretty radical dude. You know, judge not lest you be...being judged as a Christian by how you treat others...a lot of really cool stuff. But lots of people don't read those parts.