Church?

[TsPoet]

I am pagan, so being out in nature on a sunny morning (any day of the week) is beneficial to my spirituality, I am not missing out on anything

me, too.

I like riding Sunday mornings. I live in a very church oriented area, riding on Sunday as long as I avoid start/end service times is extra peaceful with no one else around, gives me a chance to do my equivalence of "church".

[Grog]

I'd like to thank everyone for the great discussion so far, which I believe to be respectful of everyone's beliefs (or lack thereof) and convictions (or lack thereof).

You're such a wonderful group of women.

[bcipam]

I love being able to discuss religion and no one gets all crazy! Very cool!!

If anyone is interested and wants to discuss Christian based topics, I have discover a forum for that entitled crosswalk.com. It has everything from "women only" health issue discussions to heavy duty theological discussions that I can barely participate in. But there is something for everyone and great place to ask any burning questions you may have.

Another note - I also truly see God in being outdoors. I think that's why all my life, even though my folks were not outdoorsy folks I've always been outside. If anyone has ever climbed Mt. Whitney, about 2/3's of the way up, after a really brutal, rocky ascent, you will reach an alpine meadow with flowering iris and other wildflowers, a small water fall and clear, meadering stream and you know, I mean you truly know, that this wonderfully beautiful place was designed by God. The first time there I had to drop to my knee and give thanks and I cried and cried cause it was so beautiful (OK I was also alittle out of it due to high attitude sickness I admit).

Every time I'm riding my MTB bike and come across a herd of deer, you see the beautiful design of their sleek, muscular bodies and undestand the cycle of life, in how He created it; the raptors soring overhead, the birds flying between the trees, the butterfly and insects, snakes, even the awesome spiders.

I mean I could go on and on about seeing a beautiful day and the beauty of nature and know that this was all created by intelligent design. The puzzle pieces that are our world are just too complicated to be created by chance. I think we all see God in our own way and we worship something spiritual that is a creator. I've given my Creator a name, but I would bet we know and feel the beauty created by the same Being. I have no problem with the ways others worship Him. I personal feel sad for those who have not felt His Spirit. The effect on the mind and body is empowering!!! I just wish you can all be on my "drug"!

[suzieqtwa]

I'm with Grog ,and Mimitabby. Religion is a BIG turn off to me. My upbringing was Catholic . I just live my life as good as I can. Not sure what going to happen to after I die ,but I guess Ill find out. I haven't been to church in 30 years.

[spokewench]

Boy that is opening a can of worms! I'm not religious - no excuses just don't think church is necessary in my life. My grandma who was a Mennonite, a great woman and very open minded, once asked me when I was little "Are you a christian? I then asked her what is a "christian" and even though she was from a very fundamental type of church she said "it means treating people like you would like to be treated yourself". My answer then was "yes" and I definitely try to make that a part of my interactions with others so I guess in those terms, I am a "Christian". In other people's definitions, I'm sure I am not!

I know that many people find strength and belief in formal religion and I applaud them for that. I don't like a lot of things that are caused by formal religion so I am really not able to believe in any specific church/religious tenents myself. But, that is why we live in a diverse world so that people can believe anything and everything they want to.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I'm with Mimi (as usual),

This Sunday morning I spent cycling through the crisp air in the sun past golden dry fields of whispering grasses, side by side with the one I love. It was so beautiful an experience it was like spiritual and uplifting. We discussed it together and he and I agreed that this oneness with the beauty of Nature and our own minds and bodies was like our religion. It makes us humble and grateful and able to love other human beings too. It strengthens us inside and out, and comforts us in times of sorrow. It aligns one's molecules into harmonious patterns somehow. And isn't that what it's all about?
No offense, but I found the premise of this poll too narrow to begin with- setting the limiting perimeter of "going to church"...which overlooks many non-christian religions as well as nature-based or individual meditation type beliefs.

[lph]

If anyone has ever climbed Mt. Whitney, about 2/3's of the way up, after a really brutal, rocky ascent, you will reach an alpine meadow with flowering iris and other wildflowers, a small water fall and clear, meadering stream and you know, I mean you truly know, that this wonderfully beautiful place was designed by God. The first time there I had to drop to my knee and give thanks and I cried and cried cause it was so beautiful

You know bcipam - this makes me happy to read, because it reminds me of experiencing the same things, even though my starting point is different. Personally I'm an agnostic going on atheist, but I've also fallen to my knees and cried from sheer awe. I can't attribute it to a God, but the experience of enormous beauty in the world is amazing, and I'm happy that others can feel the same no matter how or if they choose to explain it.

If God should turn out to exist I have the feeling He'd agree :-)

[bcipam]

Boy that is opening a can of worms! I'm not religious - no excuses just don't think church is necessary in my life. My grandma who was a Mennonite, a great woman and very open minded, once asked me when I was little "Are you a christian? I then asked her what is a "christian" and even though she was from a very fundamental type of church she said "it means treating people like you would like to be treated yourself". My answer then was "yes" and I definitely try to make that a part of my interactions with others so I guess in those terms, I am a "Christian". In other people's definitions, I'm sure I am not!

I know that many people find strength and belief in formal religion and I applaud them for that. I don't like a lot of things that are caused by formal religion so I am really not able to believe in any specific church/religious tenents myself. But, that is why we live in a diverse world so that people can believe anything and everything they want to.

I know this discussion is maybe getting off topic, but as a reponse - a Christian is one who has accepted Jesus Christ as their savior. That doesn't mean if you have not, that you aren't a good person. I know many wonderful people who are good, and gracious and wonderful but have not accepted Jesus. Many philosophies (I grew up as Buddist) have as a core belief "to do unto others...".

Also I know it's hard, but please separate faith from religion. Faith is my belief. It's how the Spirit fills me. Religion is my "church" or how I practice my belief. Religion does have it problems. Again houses of worship are run by people. People set doctrine for religion, so there are flaws. This is why one is encouraged to independently study the Bible in order to gain the skills to discern between the truth and well, lies and deceitful behavior. Yes I know Christian people to have affairs. I know them to lie and cheat and abuse their fellow man. They can be rascist, bigots, just plain jerks but none of this is condoned by the teachings of Christ. We, sadly and pitifully are flawed beings.

I do have the right to judge others and I know this meets the disapproval of some. But if I am unwilling to discern between right and wrong, good and bad, then there is no right/wrong or good/bad, everyone would have the right to act as he pleased. Thankfully Christian values keeps us from legally murdering one another, or stealing or cheating. The one misunderstanding I hear and read most often is that "I don't like religion becasue it forces certain beliefs on me (such as no abortion etc)" A true Christian knows and understands that God would never forced anyone to do what they are not willing to do. He has given us free choice and does not for want to force His love on us. Yes I understand some Churches are very judgmental and would condemn one for their beliefs, but don't judge his all by that Church or that religion.

Again these are just my views. I enjoy hearing how others feel and think. I believe we are all entitled to choose our paths in life...

[ridethewind]

Here's another thumbs down for church attendance. I used to attend as a child and teenager, but only because my parents forced me to go. I gave up attending when I turned 18 and haven't been back since. That was 37 years ago and I haven't regretted the decision to quit one bit.


___________________
Jean

[Eden]

This is all fascinating and I thank everyone for being so open and so civil. I thought that though discussing religion can be taboo and often rancerous that it would be safe to discuss it both on this forum and in this manner.

Personally I did not grow up attending church. My father's family was roman catholic and I think as many people here have voiced an upbringing and schooling in the church put him off of the lifestyle. My mothers family I think may have been lutheran or something like that, but her dad died when she was very young so I think her mom had too much on her hands being a single working mother with 4 kids to worry about being a loyal church goer. By the time I came along neither parent was a church attender.

My husband did grow up going to church with his mom, but feels very much as Mimi and Grog do about conflicts with what the church preaches vs how they act. I've never known him to go to services and did not even know he had once until we visited his parents.

My view is that if it gives you personal peace or fullfilment that any religion/philosophy that a person wants to follow is the right one. I know very happy, very balanced people from various religions who are quite devout and I really think that their religion has a lot to do with their personalities. I've never been, ummm comfortable would be the right word I guess, with ceremony religious or non religious so I would have a hard time sitting through a church service. I would feel like I was doing something wrong by being there as spectator rather than a believer I guess. That's not to say I've never felt spiritual, just not in a church setting.

[Popoki_Nui]

Colour me agnostic. I just don't think such things as God or gods are knowable. So we believe, or we don't. I can neither believe, nor can I completely disbelieve. Sometimes I think it would be nice to find the comfort you Believers find in your God, other times I find comfort in my own sprituality. One thing about my agnosticism is that I am always open to ideas from Believers and non-Believers alike.

[bcipam]

I've never been, ummm comfortable would be the right word I guess, with ceremony religious or non religious so I would have a hard time sitting through a church service. I would feel like I was doing something wrong by being there as spectator rather than a believer I guess. That's not to say I've never felt spiritual, just not in a church setting.

This is where finding the right church helps. I think everyone has this view of folks in their Sunday fineness, sitting ramrod straight on wooden benches singing from old dusty hymnals and listening to fiery brimstone sermons.

Modern churches are way removed from that. My Church doesn't look like a church at all. It's a large auditorium and the seats are like any movie theater. It's nicely air conditioned in the summer. We dress casually, I usually do jeans and sometimes even shorts in the summer. The worship music is killer (rock, alternative, gospel) and there are no "sermons." Just discussions and lectures, sometimes one of the parnishioners will tell their story of how they found Christ or of their experienced doing missionary work.

Just for the experience, there is no catch, drop into a service at an community evangelical or Calvary church to see what I mean. I know my church encourages people from all walks and is very "PC" to the fact not everyone in attendance is Christian (in fact, we have an alliance with the local muslim/jewish/buddist groups. Very close to my Church is Soka University which is a solely run and funded Buddist University and their students are encouraged to check out the local churches). They assume some people are just checking it out or want to find answers or are looking and searching for something else. Not everyone is Christian who goes to Church and not everyone who calls themselves Christian and attends church is a Christian. Only God knows whats in our hearts.

[Eden]

Interestingly enough I was just crusing around a local bike forum and someone was asking about whether or not they could do the STP (Seattle to Portland classic) on Friday and Saturday because they have a religious commitment on Sunday.

[hellosunshine]

ive deepest respect for people that really feel this force of spirituality,im not trying to be bloody minded but i stopped going to church as soon as my parents let me off the hook,is it a dying phenomenon?what is the average age of church goers?and do people tend to do more for charity these days which is prob worth a lotta weight in the great scheme of things,and almost like a religion,if you see what i mean.......

[Bluetree]

do people tend to do more for charity these days which is prob worth a lotta weight in the great scheme of things,and almost like a religion,if you see what i mean.......

Years ago, I attended Temple during the High Holy Days with my then-BF. It was a progressive/reformist rabbi (a woman) and one of the topics for discussion was whether to continue services (it was at the Beverly Hills Hotel ballroom) when hotel workers may stage a strike outside for better wages.

She told this story:
A rabbi was on his way to Temple one day, and heard a baby crying. Looking into a window, he saw an unattend babe. He went in, and held the baby until it stopped crying and went to sleep. Meanwhile, all the townspeople were at the synagogue waiting for him. He never showed. After a while, they became upset and went frantically in search of him, wondering what happened. When they finally found him, sitting with a sleeping baby, they became angry at him for causing them to miss their services over such an insignificant event. He looked at them and said, "This child was in need and I came to help. Have you learned nothing from me? The acts of God and more important than the Words of God."

After the rabbi told the story, she explained that regardless of where one stood on the proposed strike, it was important to acknowledge the struggles of people fighting for a better life for themselvs and their families. And as Jews, they should all recognize that.
With that, she announced that should the strike happen, she would not cross the picket lines. She said, "If we have to, we'll pray on the beach in front of the ocean. It doesn't matter what building is above our heads, God can hear us. But always, Acts of Godliness are paramount."
I still remember that after all these years.
BTW, The strike was settled, and averted.