Church?

[bcipam]

I love being able to discuss religion and no one gets all crazy! Very cool!!

If anyone is interested and wants to discuss Christian based topics, I have discover a forum for that entitled crosswalk.com. It has everything from "women only" health issue discussions to heavy duty theological discussions that I can barely participate in. But there is something for everyone and great place to ask any burning questions you may have.

Another note - I also truly see God in being outdoors. I think that's why all my life, even though my folks were not outdoorsy folks I've always been outside. If anyone has ever climbed Mt. Whitney, about 2/3's of the way up, after a really brutal, rocky ascent, you will reach an alpine meadow with flowering iris and other wildflowers, a small water fall and clear, meadering stream and you know, I mean you truly know, that this wonderfully beautiful place was designed by God. The first time there I had to drop to my knee and give thanks and I cried and cried cause it was so beautiful (OK I was also alittle out of it due to high attitude sickness I admit).

Every time I'm riding my MTB bike and come across a herd of deer, you see the beautiful design of their sleek, muscular bodies and undestand the cycle of life, in how He created it; the raptors soring overhead, the birds flying between the trees, the butterfly and insects, snakes, even the awesome spiders.

I mean I could go on and on about seeing a beautiful day and the beauty of nature and know that this was all created by intelligent design. The puzzle pieces that are our world are just too complicated to be created by chance. I think we all see God in our own way and we worship something spiritual that is a creator. I've given my Creator a name, but I would bet we know and feel the beauty created by the same Being. I have no problem with the ways others worship Him. I personal feel sad for those who have not felt His Spirit. The effect on the mind and body is empowering!!! I just wish you can all be on my "drug"!

[lph]

If anyone has ever climbed Mt. Whitney, about 2/3's of the way up, after a really brutal, rocky ascent, you will reach an alpine meadow with flowering iris and other wildflowers, a small water fall and clear, meadering stream and you know, I mean you truly know, that this wonderfully beautiful place was designed by God. The first time there I had to drop to my knee and give thanks and I cried and cried cause it was so beautiful

You know bcipam - this makes me happy to read, because it reminds me of experiencing the same things, even though my starting point is different. Personally I'm an agnostic going on atheist, but I've also fallen to my knees and cried from sheer awe. I can't attribute it to a God, but the experience of enormous beauty in the world is amazing, and I'm happy that others can feel the same no matter how or if they choose to explain it.

If God should turn out to exist I have the feeling He'd agree :-)

[ridethewind]

Here's another thumbs down for church attendance. I used to attend as a child and teenager, but only because my parents forced me to go. I gave up attending when I turned 18 and haven't been back since. That was 37 years ago and I haven't regretted the decision to quit one bit.


___________________
Jean

[Eden]

This is all fascinating and I thank everyone for being so open and so civil. I thought that though discussing religion can be taboo and often rancerous that it would be safe to discuss it both on this forum and in this manner.

Personally I did not grow up attending church. My father's family was roman catholic and I think as many people here have voiced an upbringing and schooling in the church put him off of the lifestyle. My mothers family I think may have been lutheran or something like that, but her dad died when she was very young so I think her mom had too much on her hands being a single working mother with 4 kids to worry about being a loyal church goer. By the time I came along neither parent was a church attender.

My husband did grow up going to church with his mom, but feels very much as Mimi and Grog do about conflicts with what the church preaches vs how they act. I've never known him to go to services and did not even know he had once until we visited his parents.

My view is that if it gives you personal peace or fullfilment that any religion/philosophy that a person wants to follow is the right one. I know very happy, very balanced people from various religions who are quite devout and I really think that their religion has a lot to do with their personalities. I've never been, ummm comfortable would be the right word I guess, with ceremony religious or non religious so I would have a hard time sitting through a church service. I would feel like I was doing something wrong by being there as spectator rather than a believer I guess. That's not to say I've never felt spiritual, just not in a church setting.

[bcipam]

I've never been, ummm comfortable would be the right word I guess, with ceremony religious or non religious so I would have a hard time sitting through a church service. I would feel like I was doing something wrong by being there as spectator rather than a believer I guess. That's not to say I've never felt spiritual, just not in a church setting.

This is where finding the right church helps. I think everyone has this view of folks in their Sunday fineness, sitting ramrod straight on wooden benches singing from old dusty hymnals and listening to fiery brimstone sermons.

Modern churches are way removed from that. My Church doesn't look like a church at all. It's a large auditorium and the seats are like any movie theater. It's nicely air conditioned in the summer. We dress casually, I usually do jeans and sometimes even shorts in the summer. The worship music is killer (rock, alternative, gospel) and there are no "sermons." Just discussions and lectures, sometimes one of the parnishioners will tell their story of how they found Christ or of their experienced doing missionary work.

Just for the experience, there is no catch, drop into a service at an community evangelical or Calvary church to see what I mean. I know my church encourages people from all walks and is very "PC" to the fact not everyone in attendance is Christian (in fact, we have an alliance with the local muslim/jewish/buddist groups. Very close to my Church is Soka University which is a solely run and funded Buddist University and their students are encouraged to check out the local churches). They assume some people are just checking it out or want to find answers or are looking and searching for something else. Not everyone is Christian who goes to Church and not everyone who calls themselves Christian and attends church is a Christian. Only God knows whats in our hearts.

[Eden]

Interestingly enough I was just crusing around a local bike forum and someone was asking about whether or not they could do the STP (Seattle to Portland classic) on Friday and Saturday because they have a religious commitment on Sunday.

[hellosunshine]

ive deepest respect for people that really feel this force of spirituality,im not trying to be bloody minded but i stopped going to church as soon as my parents let me off the hook,is it a dying phenomenon?what is the average age of church goers?and do people tend to do more for charity these days which is prob worth a lotta weight in the great scheme of things,and almost like a religion,if you see what i mean.......

[Bluetree]

do people tend to do more for charity these days which is prob worth a lotta weight in the great scheme of things,and almost like a religion,if you see what i mean.......

Years ago, I attended Temple during the High Holy Days with my then-BF. It was a progressive/reformist rabbi (a woman) and one of the topics for discussion was whether to continue services (it was at the Beverly Hills Hotel ballroom) when hotel workers may stage a strike outside for better wages.

She told this story:
A rabbi was on his way to Temple one day, and heard a baby crying. Looking into a window, he saw an unattend babe. He went in, and held the baby until it stopped crying and went to sleep. Meanwhile, all the townspeople were at the synagogue waiting for him. He never showed. After a while, they became upset and went frantically in search of him, wondering what happened. When they finally found him, sitting with a sleeping baby, they became angry at him for causing them to miss their services over such an insignificant event. He looked at them and said, "This child was in need and I came to help. Have you learned nothing from me? The acts of God and more important than the Words of God."

After the rabbi told the story, she explained that regardless of where one stood on the proposed strike, it was important to acknowledge the struggles of people fighting for a better life for themselvs and their families. And as Jews, they should all recognize that.
With that, she announced that should the strike happen, she would not cross the picket lines. She said, "If we have to, we'll pray on the beach in front of the ocean. It doesn't matter what building is above our heads, God can hear us. But always, Acts of Godliness are paramount."
I still remember that after all these years.
BTW, The strike was settled, and averted.

[Crankin]

I find this discussion fascinating. I notice not too many non-Christian religions speaking up, so even though I already said something, I will open up my big mouth. Most American Jews are not religious or observant. I would say that I'm religious, but not observant. My temple is consiously independent, i.e. is not formally associated with one of the 3 major branches of Judaism. This is a financial burden, but we like it this way. No one can tell us how to think! Our rabbi, who has been with the congregation 30 years, started as a lay leader. he was a psychologist first, and then at great personal expense, commuted to NYC to go to school and become ordained. What I like about Judaism is that a congregation doesn't need a rabbi to be a congregation.
I was raised totally unreligiously, in a predominantly Jewish suburb. I learned what I could from my friends and my boyfriend's family in particular. I always joke that my family likes to think they came over on the Mayflower... I got more religiously active when I moved to a place where I was more of a minority. When it came time to raise my kids, we decided that we would not be hypocrites, so instead of just sending the kids to a JCC preschool, we became active there and more observant. It was wonderful and it continued through their school years. They both had Bar Mitzvahs and went through to confirmation in 10th grade. I know it's "in there." My son in the Marines has put up with a lot of crap for his religion, but he gives it right back. He goes to services pretty frequently and I am proud of him for this. My other son has a serious girlfriend who isn't Jewish and is introducing her to aspects of the religion. It's interesting to see how he is dealing with this.
Well, just my .02. I don't want to change my religion, but right now I'd rather be on my bike than at services or volunteering.

[bcipam]

ive deepest respect for people that really feel this force of spirituality,im not trying to be bloody minded but i stopped going to church as soon as my parents let me off the hook,is it a dying phenomenon?what is the average age of church goers?and do people tend to do more for charity these days which is prob worth a lotta weight in the great scheme of things,and almost like a religion,if you see what i mean.......

Its interesting my folks live in Mississippi. My dad attends a very old methodist church. Very traditional. I would say the average age is 65 - 70 and the congregation is dying.

My Church has a huge youth ministry. The average adult age I would say is 35 - 40. It's a very young church. Where I live (Southern California) many churches are active youth ministries. It's become very popular here to be Christian. CHruch have made it a point to approach services with a youthful viewpoint. Look at the worship music. Downright Rock or Alternative!

Here in Orange County we have several mega churches - Rick Warren's SAddleback is one and my church - COast Hills is another. Churches are growing not slowing, at least here where I live.

[Popoki_Nui]

Colour me agnostic. I just don't think such things as God or gods are knowable. So we believe, or we don't. I can neither believe, nor can I completely disbelieve. Sometimes I think it would be nice to find the comfort you Believers find in your God, other times I find comfort in my own sprituality. One thing about my agnosticism is that I am always open to ideas from Believers and non-Believers alike.