This is getting ridiculous! When are drivers going to WAKE UP?!

[tygab]

This is a great topic, and a lot of these thoughts both pro and con have gone through my mind.

I suspect the stats are underreported also, and I do think stiffer penalties should be imposed for truly negligent driving. I struggle when reading these articles to keep perspective as a new rider, knowing I have yet to encounter a lot of scenarios. Still, the #s are really quite low, which in the scheme of things makes me think we face far greater risks being inactive, or driving ourselves, etc.

I think there is not enough driver education and testing. Kids/drivers are not taught to drive in rain, snow, extreme sun, night, and all kinds of conditions drivers regularly face. While some states now have graduated licenses, which is a good step, there still isn't a lot of time focused on practical skills other than 'turn left. stop. turn right. Good.'

Licensed drivers are almost never retested (I haven't been once since getting my license in HS, and have relicensed in 2 states). I have participated in a few winter driving schools, which are not only fun, but very effective at demonstrating some simple physics in action.

If you think about that, how can any of us be surprised when drivers have no understanding of bicycles on the road? Unfortunately, it falls to us the bicyclists to fight for our claim to the road by educating and complaining and generally pointing out that yes, it DOES matter to drivers.

Signage is a very good start and I would like to see signs on many more roads. Just the simple yellow sign with a bicycle, or the discussed elsewhere 'bicycles stop at line for green' or turning lanes etc all reinforce that yes, bikes are entitled to use the road too.

I'd say my town is pretty bike friendly, but yet there are a few stretches of roads that are in disrepair to the extent of being a danger to cyclists, and unfortunately I have to take one such section to get back to my house. I haven't complained to the town, yet, but I do think I will before they're signed up for spring road repair.

Finally, I agree there is greater safety in numbers. Not guaranteed, just greater. The 'safest' I have felt while riding this past summer was not at the 4000+ charity ride (though I did feel reasonable safe there), because there were almost too many cyclists at points. Nor was it when I was riding the nearby roads with my husband (though, there too I felt reasonably safe).

No, it was actually riding around the Lake Placid area just before the Ironman. There were probably hundreds of riders at any given time, but they were spread out training over several routes/roads, and the drivers are respectful - some maybe because they care, some maybe because they are willing to 'put up' with it, some maybe only because they are forced to behave with so many cycle friendly witnesses around. Whatever it is, I don't care. As far as I am concerned that's how it should be. I'll add that this area also is well signed as bike routes, and there are bike tourists and people training most of the riding weather months.

Another example, there's a nice long rail trail running thru my town (and neighboring ones). It cuts across roads at several points. More often than not, the car drivers STOP when they see cyclists. No one's forcing them to. I could argue this isn't proper driving behavior either, but I'll take a stopped vehicle who acknowledges a cyclist as a positive, because it's imprinting that cyclists matter on the driver's mind.

Like in LP, there's road signage, there's the cycling traffic, and there is the understanding (even if subconscious) that the people riding might be neighbors or friends.

The only way I think we can hope for that lightning in a bottle on a broader scale is by being vocal and/or visibly frequent/numerous wherever we ride, and especially wherever we ride most.

[deena]

We can't make drivers pay attention, and we can't make drivers follow the law. We CAN push to have laws passed that make it a more serious offense if a driver injures a cyclist through inattentive driveing or failure to yield. We CAN give our law enforcement the law to cite these people when they cause horrible consequences for people trying to ride (or walk) safely.

True, it won't make physical recovery any easier for the victims, but at least we aren't adding insult to injury by ignoring the trauma they have endured.

Do any states (other countries) have laws that address this?

[Deborajen]

We can't make drivers pay attention, and we can't make drivers follow the law. We CAN push to have laws passed that make it a more serious offense if a driver injures a cyclist through inattentive driveing or failure to yield. We CAN give our law enforcement the law to cite these people when they cause horrible consequences for people trying to ride (or walk) safely.

True, it won't make physical recovery any easier for the victims, but at least we aren't adding insult to injury by ignoring the trauma they have endured.

Do any states (other countries) have laws that address this?

Yes - In Germany, cars must yield to cyclists & pedestrians and cyclists must yield to pedestrians. I don't know what the specific penalties are but if a car sees a pedestrian approaching a crosswalk, they stop like their own life depends on it (and the car backs up quickly if they find themselves blocking even inches of a crosswalk with a pedestrian coming). Cars do pretty much the same if a cyclist is approaching. Everyone is obligated to look out for something smaller and more vulnerable. It's a lot to look out for when you're driving, but everyone takes their reponsibility seriously over there.

Our state's driving handbook states that it's the driver's responsibility to look out for anything smaller, but there aren't many laws or ticketable offenses for not doing so. I think, though, that a better system of bike lanes, wider shoulders, etc., would make it easier for us to ride predictably and out of the direct path of cars. We need the laws and more cyclist-friendly roads.

Deb

[Dogmama]

We can't make drivers pay attention, and we can't make drivers follow the law. We CAN push to have laws passed that make it a more serious offense if a driver injures a cyclist through inattentive driveing or failure to yield.... Do any states (other countries) have laws that address this?

Yes. In Arizona killing a cyclist will cost you $1,000. If you simply injure her, the fine is reduced to $500.

I noticed in N.C., tossing a wrapper out of your car will cost you $1,200. Shooting an animal out of season can cost you upwards of $2,000.

Recently, a cyclist was killed in the bike lane. The car entered the bike lane and hit him from behind. The driver was cited for driving in the bike lane. Period.

_____________


Re: Cell phones - it has been shown that holding the phone isn't the problem. Actually talking on the phone, thus diverting attention away from the road, is what causes the problems. So, hands-free devices aren't any better.

[MomOnBike]

Geonz said:

We choose our risks; a sedentary lifestyle is definitely risky.

I was about to make that point. Heart disease, pulmonary disease, diabetes, and a LONG list of other "lifestyle" diseases kill many more people than bikes ever could, even with the "help" of cars. Heart attacks just don't get the headlines, though.

Me, I'm aware that I will die someday. I'd rather do it on my bike than wasting away in a nursing home. Of course, I'm planning on waiting awhile for that to happen.

[emily_in_nc]

'Tis very true that a sedentary lifestyle is a *huge* risk, much more so than cycling. But the thing that gives me pause is that there are a lot of *less* risky healthy activities than (road) cycling that accomplish the same thing -- if aerobic and muscular fitness is our primary goal. Running (not in traffic, but say, on trails) and hiking for starters, both of which I enjoy a great deal. Mountain biking, perhaps more risky for minor crashes (at least for me!), but probably less risky for fatal/debilitating ones.... Choosing not to ride on the road does not condemn one to a life of sloth, clogging arteries, and increasing weight as there are other alternatives.

These are the things I think about when I try to weigh the risks and rewards of road cycling. I love it so, but at times my fears do hold me back these days. I have lost my innocence since my own serious accident and hearing/reading so about so many others in the past couple of years. Some days, my yearning to ride on the road is stronger than my fears, normally only when the weather is perfect and my mood is upbeat and positive. Other days, I just can't bring myself to go out on the road. I used to feel invincible out there, very confident, never even thought about crashing or being hit. I'm much more cautious now. That's a good thing -- but I do miss the "ignorance is bliss" stage. I had more worry-free fun back then.

Emily

[Grog]

'Tis very true that a sedentary lifestyle is a *huge* risk, much more so than cycling. But the thing that gives me pause is that there are a lot of *less* risky healthy activities than (road) cycling that accomplish the same thing -- if aerobic and muscular fitness is our primary goal.

For me cycling is not just about fitness, it's about having a lifestyle that is more respectful of my environment (both human and physical). That's one of the main reasons why I won't leave the road to the cars alone.

Hiking and mountain biking are both great, but these are things I need to take a car to do. Running is great, I do it a lot, but it's also very taxing on my body (joints) compared to cycling. The road is right there at my feet when I walk out of my door. I also need to go places. I much prefer taking my bike than my car. Often I'll still take the car, if it's pouring rain and I need to buy groceries for 10 people, or if it's night (I am not properly equipped for night riding right now). I love 'cycling for cycling' but I gain even more satisfaction sometimes from running errands or going to events on my bike (not my road bike though).

I understand your bad vibes about riding on the road and the 'lost innocence' thing. I think A LOT of car drivers actually are still in that ignorant bliss and don't realize that driving is a dangerous activity. By putting them on bikes we're also increasing safety for us...

[Dogmama]

It is important that we cyclist realize that just because we have rights on the road, many drivers will not yield to us. Once a driver almost hit me broadside. I chased him down (OK, not smart, I was young & dumb) and yelled:

"You could have killed me!"

His reply?

"You could have scratched my car!"

Whereupon he sauntered into the store. I got on the phone & called 911 & reported him. A cop actually showed up (maybe because this dispatcher realized it was crazy) and "talked to him."

[emily_in_nc]

For me cycling is not just about fitness, it's about having a lifestyle that is more respectful of my environment (both human and physical). That's one of the main reasons why I won't leave the road to the cars alone.

Hiking and mountain biking are both great, but these are things I need to take a car to do. Running is great, I do it a lot, but it's also very taxing on my body (joints) compared to cycling. The road is right there at my feet when I walk out of my door. I also need to go places. I much prefer taking my bike than my car. Often I'll still take the car, if it's pouring rain and I need to buy groceries for 10 people, or if it's night (I am not properly equipped for night riding right now). I love 'cycling for cycling' but I gain even more satisfaction sometimes from running errands or going to events on my bike (not my road bike though).

I completely agree with your sentiments, grog. And I also ride for much more than just fitness -- I think that some folks on this thread were emphasizing riding vs. doing nothing at all physical, and that's simply not an option I'd even consider! I am lucky in that I can both mountain bike and hike (and road ride) right from my door since I live in the woods on acreage with trails around me (and much more vacant acreage). Doesn't mean I do that all the time as I like to have more alternatives, like hiking at state and national parks and mountain biking on different trails with friends. And, I live far enough away from most everything, living in a rural area as I do, that there are few places I can actually ride to that constitute "running errands". I can go to the library (7.5 miles one way), post office (3 miles), food co-op (14 miles), farmer's market (14 miles), and Performance bike shop (15 miles), though! I can't get to work (would be 40+ miles one way on back roads), and other shops are in much busier areas and on multi-lane roads I'm just not up to tackling. We did ride to the food co-op, farmer's market, and post office several times this past summer, but I don't like riding in cold weather so tend to hang up my helmet this time of year and do more hiking (and yes, we usually drive to parks, but look at how many people ride to cycling club events and club rides -- I used to as well since they normally start too early or are too far away to ride to, though I'd do that when I could manage it), trail and treadmill running (these both require no driving since I have trails right from my house and a gym at my workplace)....

It's just a tough dilemma since I do so believe in riding and live and breathe it in many ways (have four bikes, more bike clothes than regular, have "Share the road" bumper stickers on my car, am a LAB and Adventure Cycling member, etc. I just wish I felt safer out there on the roads these days.

And, it kinda hurts that my DH is just not into cycling these days either. He used to be - big time. But he hasn't been very interested since I had my accident in April 2005. I think he kinda lost his innocence that day too.

Emily