Samhain ~ Halloween... my rant for the day...

[Quillfred]

Parts of Mexico have been able to retain traditions in El Dia de los Muertos - Day of the Dead. I have been privileged in the past to participate in this holy holiday time in Oaxaca City - one of the southern states with large indiginous populations.

http://www.mexonline.com/features/daydead-oaxaca.htm

http://oaxacalive.com/muertos.htm

It is a family holiday that is very poignant, where families celebrate their deceased loved ones by building altars of remembrance decorated with pictures of the deceased, crosses, flowers, mezcal/tequila, food, etc.

The holidays start on the 31st up to the 2nd. Families clean and decorate gravesites in a similar fashion and stay up all night reminiscing and celebrating the memories of loved ones. One night is dedicated to infants.

Stores and houses are decorated for the holiday. There are impromptu plays in the street. Small groups of musicians play songs and encourage merriment and dance. There are bands playing in the town square in the evening.

It might sound macabre but it really isn't. Death is grieved, mocked, and laughed at. It is quite a refreshing change to our cultural relationship to death.

May justice and peace return to Oaxaca soon.

[RoadRaven]

As long as $$ makes the world go round I am afraid there will be no changing it. The rest of us can rant and commiserate with one another. Glad to "meet" you!

Must everything be transformed into a mere commodity to be bought and sold?

Greetings from DownUnder, IF and Cassandra
Yes, you have hit the nail on the head of course... money money money... its just I feel so disappointed that families who can ill-afford to "buy into" it do... a waste of money - it reminds me of that episode on the Simpsons - was it "Love Day" - a manufacturers wet-dream bought into by people having no idea why they do who then chuck out all the rubbish - that that episode was a point well-made!

[RoadRaven]

I'm not sure if it was a Scottish tradition or not as my grandparents were Irish and I know it is definitely an Irish tradition.

It is definately part of Gaelic pre-Christian tradition - think stories around Avalon, Morgaine and so forth... this time and these myths and stories are why my first name, Raven, has been chosen both for me and by me.
I am mostly Scottish if you "read" my genes and I have always felt drawn to parts of the UK - even before I was able to identify that I didn't think like so many around me. I look forward to visiting and walking in some of these places and breathing the air and feeling the touch of the magick that is undoubtedly still in the air.

The expectation is to be given sweets rather than earn it. There also seems to be a fair amount of older kids spoiling it by trying to get money. My boyfriend never went "guising" so only has the imported American traditions to go on.

And this is what happens when you don't give the kids the 'full' story - or at least one of the interpretations of why they might say trick or treat... for example; one of the stories says that if the Druids came to your door asking for a child for initiation (though Priests told people that Druids used children for blood sacrifice) then you would not be favoured by the Druids (or, the Priests would say, the druids would put an evil curse/spell on you). So the child was the treat - the dis-favour was the trick.
If children do not have understanding, then I guess it is inevitable in the capitalised West that it becomes "all bout me and what I can get"

Parts of Mexico have been able to retain traditions in El Dia de los Muertos - Day of the Dead. I have been privileged in the past to participate in this holy holiday time in Oaxaca City - one of the southern states with large indiginous populations.

Ah… and this is it… something is celebrated in all cultures I can think of to acknowledge the start or moiddle of winter, it usually incorporates reverence for the dead… so why forget our past in the flurry of commercialistation – for where is the future without that – and why turn either death, or the rythym of the world (our seasons) into a commercial enterprise?? It is always wonderful to hear people celebrating in old ways, and even incorporating it into new ways (when I think Mexico, I think a high Christian population – and yet old ways are not lost simply because of new ways). In this country, when missionaries brought Christianity, the old Goddesses and Gods of this land were not forsaken by Maori, and in fact are still acknowledged without conflict beside Christianity

[RoadRaven]

Hadn't realised we'd exported Guy Fawkes night - seems a bit pointless anywhere else but Britain (and in Britain too).

I hadn't even heard of 5th November celebrations... Until I saw V FOR VENDETTA...
Australia was a "convict" settlement though. So I guess that means we saved up all our old world holidays for Christmas and Easter in the 1800s thus why none have been big over the last couple of years...

Well, an left over of our colonial past and one of the last "jewels" in the crown. I think UK immigrants to Oz had a definate advantage in extablishing their identity.

In NZ people longed for and missed the "old country" and even our radio and tv announcers as recently as 15 years ago had to talk with plums in their mouths.

Newcomers from the UK to Oz were pleased to leave the Old country behind - so many having being treated shabbily, so made there own identity.

The way these two countries have evolved despite being settled at the same time is quite different and I think we are getting more and more different culturally. With family here and in Oz I find it fascinating.

And yes, Tattie, ANZAC Day is big here - though for a while it seemed to lose support as the old people died, but in recent years the number of young ones (my children's age) turning up on for the Dawn Parade and remembering not only the old soldiers, but also the pointlessness of so many wars.

[RoadRaven]

I'm wishing the Brightest of Blessings albeit belatedly for Samhain and the new year.

My last post in this series of relpies...

Yes, blessings for Samhain for those in the north, and for Beltane for those in the south…

Well met, those of you for whom this thread carries meaning

~Raven~

[Bad JuJu]

[COLOR="darkorchid"]It is definately part of Gaelic pre-Christian tradition - think stories around Avalon, Morgaine and so forth... this time and these myths and stories are why my first name, Raven, has been chosen both for me and by me.

Very interesting! The Raven in native Alaskan legends is a trickster figure--shape-changer, world-changer, always making some mischief. Is the Raven in Celtic legend similar?

And I find ravens themselves fascinating--their intelligence and their voices are remarkable.

[Tater]

Merry meet,
I don't participate in the Halloween thing and many other Christian holidays for exactly the reasons posted here, specifically the commercial one! It seems like nowdays, every holiday is out to make money. Halloween (Samhain) is barely over and Christmas stuff is everywhere! When my brothers and I were young, our parents made sure to stress that it wasn't all about what kind and how many goodies were under the tree on Christmas morning. That is the total opposite of what I see today. Maybe that is why I feel much more comfortable with and continue to celebrate the Pagan tradations.
Blessed be

[RoadRaven]

Yes, Dogmamma ( and IF)... the widely-held meaning of "witch" has been brought straight to you from the fear of male priests 'way back when', a new religion keen to take the unnatural power from women and which viewed women as evil (the original sin, the temptress - look what they did to the disciple Mary Magdalane) - we have the power to create life, we can bleed copiously every month and not die - and back then many women had knowledge of healing, and this knowledge is being found and shared again - amongst men and women, Christian and Pagan alike.

JuJu... in North America, the Raven often appears as a God but in Celtic understandings, the Raven is a signatory creature... the Raven is often associated with powerful Goddess figures.
The Celts believed the Raven to be one of three oldest animals (the other two being the trout and the stag). The Raven is a creature of wisdom (there is a saying/blessing wishing the "wisdom of the raven".
Ravens are associated with death transitions in Celtic lore - Raven is the carrier of souls between the spirit world and the earth plane. Raven can foretell the beginning of a new life, but usually is associated with the transition from life to the next place we travel.

Tater... like you I am sad at the commercialisation, and like your parents, my partner and I stress that these commercial events are actually not about buying more stuff. Their birthdays are when the money is spent.

[bcipam]

I hadn't realized that our Halloween was now being celebrated outside the USA. How sad. Personally it's one holiday I can do without. I guess as a kid I enjoyed it - who wouldn't enjoy getting candy and sweets that would last a year but now the holiday is just well, too entirely commerical. My neighborhood "dresses up" its houses almost like it's Christmas time (and don't get me started about that!).

As an evangelical christian I don't get all weirded about the holiday celebrating pagan symbols and rituals - Halloween has long since advance from that - it's now just a great big event for candy makers and those who make home decorations. Kids have no idea what the holiday really means. It's sad to realize especially since the USA is the fattest nation in the world, that we celebrate a holiday by giving out candy to little kids who probably eat too much junk food and dont get enough exercise as it is.

SO NZ, so sorry for exporting the holiday. I feel your pain.

[Bad JuJu]

JuJu... in North America, the Raven often appears as a God but in Celtic understandings, the Raven is a signatory creature... the Raven is often associated with powerful Goddess figures.
The Celts believed the Raven to be one of three oldest animals (the other two being the trout and the stag). The Raven is a creature of wisdom (there is a saying/blessing wishing the "wisdom of the raven".
Ravens are associated with death transitions in Celtic lore - Raven is the carrier of souls between the spirit world and the earth plane. Raven can foretell the beginning of a new life, but usually is associated with the transition from life to the next place we travel.

Thanks for that new info, RR. I've always been very interested in North American raven lore--it's intriguing to hear how other cultures have "interpreted" the raven. From your description, it sounds somewhat like the Irish banshee. Hmmm.....

[Cassandra_Cain]

Parts of Mexico have been able to retain traditions in El Dia de los Muertos - Day of the Dead. I have been privileged in the past to participate in this holy holiday time in Oaxaca City - one of the southern states with large indiginous populations.

http://www.mexonline.com/features/daydead-oaxaca.htm

http://oaxacalive.com/muertos.htm

It is a family holiday that is very poignant, where families celebrate their deceased loved ones by building altars of remembrance decorated with pictures of the deceased, crosses, flowers, mezcal/tequila, food, etc.

The holidays start on the 31st up to the 2nd. Families clean and decorate gravesites in a similar fashion and stay up all night reminiscing and celebrating the memories of loved ones. One night is dedicated to infants.

Stores and houses are decorated for the holiday. There are impromptu plays in the street. Small groups of musicians play songs and encourage merriment and dance. There are bands playing in the town square in the evening.

It might sound macabre but it really isn't. Death is grieved, mocked, and laughed at. It is quite a refreshing change to our cultural relationship to death.

May justice and peace return to Oaxaca soon.

How fitting, I was at a Dia De Los Muertos parade yesterday!

[latelatebloomer]

This seems like a perfect time for us all to sing that Dar Williams song about the Christians & the Pagans (in one family) having Thanksgiving dinner together (but this time only pumpkin pies are burning.)

I love Halloween.* Of course, I live next to a cemetary, call my little place Goblin Farm, and am very clear that if I lived in "olden days" I'd have been burned the first time anyone heard me talking to animals... & plants!

(*I live in a tiny rural village, so it doesn't get crass.)

[Geonz]

I thought it was Christmas... wasn't there a tree? Now *that's* a song that brings tears to my eyes :-)

I was a teensy bit disappointed that almost everybody at my friend's Day of the Dead party dressed scary, but then I debated with myself about trying to pretend to be from a culture you aren't vs. absorbing just a little bit of it into your own...

[latelatebloomer]

Could've been Christmas. I tend to quote off the top of my head. Margot caught me passing off Julian of Norwich for Hildegard deBingen. The depth of knowlege on this forum is apparently boundless!

[RoadRaven]

Lyrics here for those interested - it is more fun to listen to the song if you can though...

Amber called her uncle, said We're up here for the holiday,
Jane and I were having Solstice, now we need a place to stay.
And her Christ-loving uncle watched his wife hang Mary on a tree,
He watched his song hang candy canes all made with red dye number three.

He told his niece, Its Christmas Eve, I know our life is not your style,
She said, Christmas is like Solstice, and we miss you and its been awhile,
So the Christians and the Pagans sat together at the table,
Finding faith and common ground the best that they were able,
And just before the meal was served, hands were held and prayers were said,
Sending hope for peace on earth to all their gods and goddesses.

The food was great, the tree plugged in, the meal had gone without a hitch,
Till Timmy turned to Amber and said, Is it try that youre a wtich?
His mom jumped up and said, The pies are burning, and she hit the kitchen,
And it was Jane who spoke, she said, Its true, your cousins not a Christian,
But we love trees, we love the snow, the friends we have, the world we share,
And you find magic from your God, and we find magic everywhere,
So the Christians and the Pagans sat together at the table,
Finding faith and common ground the best that they were able,
And where does magic come from? I think magics in the learning,
Cause now when Christians sit with Pagans only pumpkin pies are burning.

When Amber tried to do the dishes, her aunt said, Really, no, dont bother.
Ambers uncle saw how Amber looked like Tim and like her father.
He thought about his brother, how they hadnt spoken in a year,
He thought hed call him up and say, Its Christmas and your daughters here.

He thought of fathers, sons and brothers, so his own son tug his sleeve, saying,
Can I be a Pagan? Dad said, Well discuss it when they leave.
So the Christians and the Pagans sat together at the table,
Finding faith and common ground the best that they were able,
Lighting trees in darkness, learning new ways from the old, and
Making sense of history and drawing warmth out of the cold.