Having babies

[Dianyla]

I have no opinion on the offensiveness of the term chav, but I still think it's at least a wee bit arrogant to want children for the purpose of outnumbering another group of people.

It doesn't matter whether "those other people" are different based on socioeconomic class, religion, ethnicity, or perceived intelligence. No matter how you slice or dice it, that statement means that you think your kind of people are better than those kind of people, therefore more of you ought to exist than more of them.

Just my $0.02.

[Puffin]

Woah there! I never said I wanted to have babies to outnumber another type of person/class, etc. I have TOTALLY been misinterpreted. It was a tongue in cheek comment about having children to populate the world with more people like me & my husband...Survival of the fittest - HELLO? Anyone heard of the Devil's Advocate?
If you read the previous post it was also tongue in cheek about not wanting babies to turn out as a combination of their particular genes. No one is saying that they are better than anyone else
Besides, the CHAV reference is also being completely misconstrued. It's not about a PEOPLE, its about a behaviour, which I happen to have an opinion on.
JEEZ

[Dianyla]

I know that you were joking. My point is that I still think the remark is offensive, sarcasm or not.

[paigette]

HELLO? Anyone heard of the Devil's Advocate?

You do realize that Devil's Advocate means a person who takes the worse side of an argument just for the sake of arguing....right?

Sarcasm is one thing, creating discourse just for the heck of it, is another.

[Puffin]

I give up.
Thanks to all who did offer some kind advice earlier.
I have been bullied off the page.

[Hammer02]

Some of you are wrapped waaaaay too tight.

[Crankin]

Wow, I have never ventured into this area of the forum. I'm only going to comment on the having babies part; But I do agree, lighten up a bit, everyone.
I was one of those weird mothers who never felt guilty, never gave up a whole lot in my life, and managed to raise 2 wonderful now grown up sons. My children were very much planned and wanted after an initial phase where my husband was one step away from the vasectomy clinic. I went back to work after 6 weeks with the first and my husband stayed home with him while he finished school (he had sold his business, so we lived on that $). My husband went back to work when he was 8 months old, coinciding nicely with my summer break. I had no friends with babies at that time, except some people at work, but not really close friends. I didn't ride then, but I did spend a considerable amount of time at the gym. I either went at 5:30 in the morning, or right after work, and kept my kids in daycare until 5 or so, when most people are just getting out of work. My husband did the AM shift and I picked them up. When he traveled, it was a little harder, but eventually we could afford a nanny who came to our house every day. I had son #2 when the oldest was 2 and half. I had 2 kids in diapers (that sucked) for a couple of months. But in the interim I had started going to a playgroup during the summer and several other moms with kids the same age as mine. I had a bad attitude toward them at first, but they eventually became my closest friends. I was always happy though when summer ended and I could talk to people about other things (i.e., the peas issue). Yes, I am sure I was a little guilty of obsessing on my kids, but not like some people I see. During all of this, i was working as a teacher, my husband traveled about 80% of the time on business, and i was also teaching aerobics at a gym, on the board of the JCC, and teaching Hebrew School. I had a lot of support from various friends, babysitters, etc. My husband and I went out almost every Saturday night, and kept doing the same social things we had always done. As my kids got older and we moved to MA, away from all of our great support in AZ, we started doing a lot more activities with the kids. I actually enjoyed them more every year. I will be honest, they were cute babies, but every year just got better. So yes, my life changed, but not enough for me to complain all of the time. We only allowed them to do one activity at a time (plus religious school which was a 2 day a week commitment) and my kids actually spent a lot of time playing outside in the woods (a novel idea to many parents of my students!). This kept a lot of the stress down.I had one friend who used to feed her kids dinner in the car, schlepping them from one activity to another. I swore i would never come to that! We gave our kids a lot of freedom, like going into Boston or Cambridge on the train when they were 14-15 and they went to overnight camp from age 8 up (a very frugal Audubon camp). Now they are actually my friends, at ages 21 and 24 and I don't regret anything we did.
So.... don't let anyone try to instill their vision of motherhood on you. There's more than one way to be a good mom.

[Maureen Valley]

Robyn...a voice of reason. Thank you.....and alot of you made sense responding to this thread. Forgive me...this is gonna be long.

As for the business of biking...staying in shape while pregnant...whatever....I only know that your body holds you hostage during a pregnancy. Forget life as you knew it. It's a fabulous time of life and you will (might?) feel like a million bucks and ride like the wind till you get too big and the leg pains get too severe to climb on your bike. Remember the sheer pressure ladies? You urinate constantly....that baby takes up as much room as he wants....and your vital organs end up damn near down hear your knees. Biking? I think not at this point.

Oh, the other hand....I won't whitewash it....you might have the pregnancy from hell. Asking others is good therapy and you'll get as many ideas as there are peas in a package of Green Giant...(hope you're smiling) but you have no idea till you get there. Now...once the baby is born....life is pretty much over as you knew it. I didn't read a book for 5 years due to the interruptions and the endless distractions of dealing with a toddler whose world is totally narcisstic. Then...there's the birth thing. Gee...no one really prepares you for that one. They tell you that you'll forget. Uh huh.....right. You'll be discussing episiotomy scars over lunch.

But I'm rambling about something I haven't experienced in 41 years. Take it for what it's worth.

What the instigator of this thread doesn't know yet, is that every wink...breath...pea ingestion...bowel movement....and goo that your baby makes will have you enthralled. Don't need to be cool about it...it's called motherhood.

Hugs to all,
Maureen