CX Hurts....

[velogirl]

You live in California, correct? I'll be you get some pretty tough competition at CX races...since California seems to be such a hotbed for cycling.

First, congrats on your races. Be patient and I bet you'll be kicking butt sometime soon. Isn't it a cool feeling to give it everything? Since you raced hard the day before, you weren't able to hold it, but try it again when you're frest and I bet you'll see a different result.

Yes, I'm in CA. They race all the women together here, although they stagger starts. We almost always get lapped by the A women. We have so many national-level racers and world's team members here -- Barb Howe, Sarah Kerlin (national masters champ), Melodie Metzger (national collegiate champ), Josie Beggs, Linda Elgart (national masters champ), Stella Carey (world single speed champ), Rachel Lloyd (world team member), etc. They're really in a league of their own.

I think that's why we've got so many women racing Bs who really belong in the As -- they don't want to compete with these women. It's too bad, because you end up with lots of sandbagging in the Bs, which also trickles down to the Cs. I think if USAC ever really institutes the category/upgrade system, it might change. But the local promoters are still basically ignoring that system.

It's actually frustrating for the As (racing with the beginners) and the Cs (racing with the elites), but at least they give the women a race of their own.

[madisongrrl]

Yes, I'm in CA. They race all the women together here, although they stagger starts. We almost always get lapped by the A women. We have so many national-level racers and world's team members here -- Barb Howe, Sarah Kerlin (national masters champ), Melodie Metzger (national collegiate champ), Josie Beggs, Linda Elgart (national masters champ), Stella Carey (world single speed champ), Rachel Lloyd (world team member), etc. They're really in a league of their own.

These people are certainly in a league of their own. So they compete in your state's local series...maybe they should have a category of their own. In our mountain bike series, we get local and regional pros that drop in time to time to poach races that have decent payouts. They race in the same category as our Elites and totally smack everyone down. But, there aren't enough Pros to have a "Pro" category.

I think that's why we've got so many women racing Bs who really belong in the As -- they don't want to compete with these women. It's too bad, because you end up with lots of sandbagging in the Bs, which also trickles down to the Cs. I think if USAC ever really institutes the category/upgrade system, it might change. But the local promoters are still basically ignoring that system.

While sandbagging happens everywhere, your situation seems to be an extreme example of it. This is the kind of stuff that kills cycling for women and will hurt the future of women in cycling and CX. Do they have a beginner category for new racers, or is it just A,B and C? The USAC should really come down on promoters and make them conform to regulation. We pay for our cycling liscenses for a reason...don't we?

[velogirl]

Actually, I think it pushes you to race harder and faster. And many of the elite racers lead clinics so they're very accessible. I'd say they do have a league of their own -- the As -- but it discourages other A-level women from racing with them. The leader of the Bs is a pro mtn biker (and former national champion). She should be racing As rather than smacking the Bs around. Alas.....

I don't necessarily think the local system is bad. At this point, promoters are giving you the leverage to race in the category you want to race. I think in future years USAC will get a bit stricter about it.

Cs are beginners in CA. I've found the way to get women into the sport and retain them is to give them a lot of support. Velo Girls and Velo Bella do this very well for cross. Other teams don't seem to have the same level of commitment to the beginners.

Oh, the other bizarre thing in this series is that they have big bucks prizes for the winners in the lower categories. For example, the winner of the C women gets a complete felt cyclocross bike. That discourages her from upgrading to Bs even though she'd do well there. Of course, she's only ever done two cross races in her life, so she really is a beginner.

[eteamer]

Ok, after years lurking this topic has gotten my attention. I have been racing the A women in Norcal for quite a while and what you say definitely resonates with me. For sure racing with fast women makes you faster. I actually don't think the races are as fast as they are when Carmen, Gina and Rachel were out there piling on the hurt, but they are still at a very high level and that is good. But I have to agree that it makes the categories weird. I could race 35+ and win, but I usually beat the winner of that category by minutes, so I race A's. That means I have people to race in the middle of the pack, but don't have a prayer of seeing the front of the race. So my questions is why can't the promoters go to a 1-4 format and score the categories separately? I think it would help. What do you think VeloGirl?

[velogirl]

Ooh! Now you've got me all curious -- who are you? Andi? Email me off-line if you don't want the world to know.

Not sure why they didn't categorize the races. I think the old-school promoters wanted to keep the spirit of self-selection alive. Since there are no mandatory upgrades at this point, I guess it doesn't really matter. The local promoters gave category guidelines (ie C = 4, B = 2-4, A = 1-3) but nothing more. Once they really start awarding points for upgrades and there are mandatories, I think it might make the sport a bit fairer, especially wrt the sandbaggers.

My sense is there will be stricter guidelines for masters nationals in future years (ie must be CAT3 to participate), so we'll see some folks upgrading out of CAT4 so they can go to natz). The proposal on the table right now for 2007 is that women must be CAT3 to go to natz unless they're 45+ -- same as the restrictions for road and crits.

[madisongrrl]

ICs are beginners in CA. I've found the way to get women into the sport and retain them is to give them a lot of support. Velo Girls and Velo Bella do this very well for cross. Other teams don't seem to have the same level of commitment to the beginners.

Cat 4 is beginner here also (formerly known as C's), but some promoters have been running a special beginner category.

http://www.wicycling.org/CycloCross/...ash%202006.pdf

Beginner and Cat 4 are run at the same time, but the results must get separated.

Oh, the other bizarre thing in this series is that they have big bucks prizes for the winners in the lower categories. For example, the winner of the C women gets a complete felt cyclocross bike. That discourages her from upgrading to Bs even though she'd do well there. Of course, she's only ever done two cross races in her life, so she really is a beginner

Indeed very strange. WI cycling gives the most money out for the Cat1/2, gives a little less money out for the Cat 3 and only gives merchandise out to Cat 4. This is done to discourage sandbagging for money.

[velogirl]

I think the promoters (and sponsors) are trying to support the entry-level racers, but yes, this encourages sandbagging, especially since it's a series. There are other series in the area that do a raffle for the big prizes -- that seems like a fairer way to still support the racers but discourage sandbaggers.

[eteamer]

Ooh! Now you've got me all curious -- who are you? Andi? Email me off-line if you don't want the world to know.

Not sure why they didn't categorize the races. I think the old-school promoters wanted to keep the spirit of self-selection alive. Since there are no mandatory upgrades at this point, I guess it doesn't really matter. The local promoters gave category guidelines (ie C = 4, B = 2-4, A = 1-3) but nothing more. Once they really start awarding points for upgrades and there are mandatories, I think it might make the sport a bit fairer, especially wrt the sandbaggers.

My sense is there will be stricter guidelines for masters nationals in future years (ie must be CAT3 to participate), so we'll see some folks upgrading out of CAT4 so they can go to natz). The proposal on the table right now for 2007 is that women must be CAT3 to go to natz unless they're 45+ -- same as the restrictions for road and crits.

I'm not Andi, but Allison.... I just think that the switch is going to come at some time, so why not do it and get people used to it? Even the independent places like CO are moving that way. I think it would be kind of fun really. I'm a 3, so I would be in a totally different race than I am now. You would see people ugrading and downgrading all over the place. If I go and win then hey I'm ok with being a two, but if I don't then I'm in the right race. Right? I wonder if they are just worried about the administrative headache?

[velogirl]

Hey, Allison! It's Lorri Lown (you probably figured that out). Not sure why the local promoters didn't adapt the numerical system -- probably because they don't have to do it yet. It means thinking of things in a new way, although they could just do combined CAT races and keep it similar to what they've got. There was also a lot of confusion at the beginning of the year about upgrade requirements (which will probably change). USAC had based them on road upgrade rules and for cross, with a shorter season but most folks racing more frequently, the same rules don't seem to work as well.

I think the other concern was that USAC chose categories based on road and mtn bike categories which aren't always accurate when you put someone in a cross race. I know some kick-butt roadies who have tons of fitness who probably couldn't finish a cross race!

The other strange thing is this is my 4th season racing and I don't have a single USAC result for cross. I asked Tom about this one time and he replied that it was "too much bother."

I guess we'll see what happens in 2007.

[SheFly]

In the Northeast, most promoters have moved to the new categorizations for 'cross racing. However, for women, there are typically only two fields anyway - B (3,4) or Elite (1,2,3). I have been racing as a 4, which is what is on my license, but am racing alongside the 3s as well.

We don't really have a true "beginner" category here - you kind of have to jump in with both feet.

SheFly

[eteamer]

Hey Lori! I think the initial category thing is why making the shift now is better. Get it worked out before you are forced to...Can you imagine the howling if you actually had to be a 2 or 3 to race nationals and the only racing you have ever done is cross? Oh boy.

[velogirl]

Yup! I read the proposed USAC rule changes from Tom Simonson and if it passes, you'll need to be a 3 in cross to race at nationals.

Of course, there's such a disparity between regions but I guess that's just like road too. There are parts of the country with super-strong cross programs -- Northeast, CA, CO, OR, WA. And there are parts of the country where they might get 4 women in a race.

[eteamer]

In the Northeast, most promoters have moved to the new categorizations for 'cross racing. However, for women, there are typically only two fields anyway - B (3,4) or Elite (1,2,3). I have been racing as a 4, which is what is on my license, but am racing alongside the 3s as well.

We don't really have a true "beginner" category here - you kind of have to jump in with both feet.

SheFly

And still you get really big fields! Gotta love that. Velo Girls and Velobella have definitely made it happen here on the West Coast, but in looking back at old results from around 2003 we would have like 70 women in all categories which is way more than now. And that sounds like a lot until you look at Portland where Cross Crusade is pulling in 125 women. Unbelievable.

[SheFly]

I think that this year has seen a jump in women's 'cross here in New England. I know for a fact that our team has a minimum of 6 first time racers this season. So far, I have seen B women's fields around 26 women (max), and it's the same women at most events, which is nice!

For some reason, though, the Verge series here in New England (the only big series really) only has an Elite Women's category - nothing for we "newbies"... Maybe that's something we need to work on...

Velobella is creating a presence here as well, as is Team LunaChix, which is great. I would LOVE to see bigger women's fields!

SheFly

[velogirl]

Interesting that cross has shrunk in NorCal. I started racing in 2003 and it seems that it's gotten bigger, but there aren't any results I can find online anymore except CCCX. Where have the fields shrunk, Allison? As? Bs? Cs? I'd guess As. Were there specific clubs that were active in bringing teams of women to the races or was it mostly individuals.

We had 53 women (finishers) at the first Pilarcitos and 52 this week. I was impressed.

I started racing XC this year, too, and it seems fields are smaller for women than in the past. One of the things I see in both sports is the huge amount of turn-over of beginner women -- many women do one race and never come back. Velo Girls is going to sponsor the beg. women at CCCX (mtb) next year in an attempt to fix this. We're going to give each beg. woman a t-shirt and also lead a course pre-ride and de-brief (beer) post-race.