childless?

[Nokomis]

thank you all - this is always a supportive & healing place to be!

I am on doc #4, if I include my acupuncturist. This is the first doc who told me she'd take my spotting seriously - but after 3 visists I got the "dont know what to do with you" shrug.

As I tried to convey, I'm doing very well in the day to day & with the life that DH & I have together. The difficulty is baby envy, and watching close friends bring their little ones into the world. I'm also convinced there is a boom - cuz they're everywhere!

We've got the pets, I've done a bunch of volunteering but had to step away this year... but still can't quite let go of the baby dream, for as much as baby fear is keeping me away.

Thanks again & again!

[LBTC]

The difficulty is baby envy

Nokomis, your comment about envy reminded me of an excellent article I read in Yoga Journal
http://www.yogajournal.com/wisdom/1157_1.cfm

I get the sense that you are handling this entire difficult phase with a lot of grace and love. Your posts tell me also that you're ready to seek answers from a higher or deeper source. The road to peace is challenging to each of us with plenty of obstacles all designed to help us learn that which we need to learn most. I have found solace and guidance in the writings of the tao, in the practice and reading about the wisdom of yoga, and a deeper way of thinking in the tarot. I've also found peace, gratitude and joy in the photos I take. (I didn't mention biking here this time, because I'm unable to do it during this phase of my life, so I must rely on my other sources...)

You'll find your ways to deal with this issue in the long term. And whenever you are having difficulty with it, just post again!

Hugs and butterflies,
~T~

[SheFly]

As I tried to convey, I'm doing very well in the day to day & with the life that DH & I have together. The difficulty is baby envy, and watching close friends bring their little ones into the world. I'm also convinced there is a boom - cuz they're everywhere!

I, too, have been for a ride on the infertility roller coaster. I always assumed I would have children, and it just wasn't meant to be.

Like you, as we were dealing with our grief over not having a family, it seemed that everyone around us was happily announcing that they were expecting, including our siblings! It really was hard to see and to hear, but I did my best to be happy and supportive of all of them. I think that the hardest thing for me to deal with was a college friend who had a daughter, and then started complaining about lack of sleep, the work, etc - all while KNOWING that I couldn't have children!

I am happy to say, however, that now DH and I are very happy with our lives. We focus on each other and our friends, and we are a great aunt and uncle. About a year ago I was overly late one month and knew that I had crossed a hurdle when my thinking was that I couldn't possibly be pregnant because it would totally affect my lifestyle!

The hardest part of all of this is accepting the hand you are dealt, and moving on. It will be difficult as your friends and family have children. You will grieve, and you will, in time, find yourself in a great place for you.

Best wishes.

SheFly

[xeney]

Emily, thank you so much for your post. I'm 37 and I am in a pretty bad transition stage ... a year ago my husband didn't want kids but had a fairly open mind about the subject, then I got accidentally pregnant and had a miscarriage in May, then we were ambivalent and not really trying but I had a couple of chemical pregnancies, then he said he didn't want to try, now he's back to being open to the possibilities, but I just had my first half-hearted appointment with the doctor and there is apparently some concern that I am not ovulating properly and might need assistance to get pregnant again. And I think my husband's ambivalence, plus my absolute terror of having another miscarriage, is enough that we probably won't go that route.

Throughout all of this, I have tried really hard to make a life in which I am happy without kids. I've been trying to do that since I was in my 20s, since he was absolutely not ready for kids then, and I have seen enough people have their lives truly ruined by fertility struggles that I just wanted to make sure it did not happen to me.

But at some point I realized that I was lacking good role models for living a happy life without children. For various professional reasons, most of my female colleagues are older than I am, and about half of them don't have children. At some point I noticed that that was definitely the unhappy half. They weren't taking advantage of their freedoms to do anything but work a lot of unpaid overtime, they were just a pretty unhappy group. I don't know if the unhappiness is a cause or effect or totally unrelated to not having kids, but I have been looking for some happy role models for a while, pretty unsuccessfully.

That is one reason I started spending more time here at TE, honestly ... I noticed a lot woman about five to ten years older than I am, without kids, who seemed to be having pretty fulfilling lives. It breaks my heart to find out how many of you got to the point after going through fertility struggles, but it is good to know that there is an other side out there.

[SheFly]

But at some point I realized that I was lacking good role models for living a happy life without children. For various professional reasons, most of my female colleagues are older than I am, and about half of them don't have children. At some point I noticed that that was definitely the unhappy half. They weren't taking advantage of their freedoms to do anything but work a lot of unpaid overtime, they were just a pretty unhappy group. I don't know if the unhappiness is a cause or effect or totally unrelated to not having kids, but I have been looking for some happy role models for a while, pretty unsuccessfully.

That is one reason I started spending more time here at TE, honestly ... I noticed a lot woman about five to ten years older than I am, without kids, who seemed to be having pretty fulfilling lives. It breaks my heart to find out how many of you got to the point after going through fertility struggles, but it is good to know that there is an other side out there.

From what I have read so far in this thread, I think you may have come to the right place!

I am only a year older than you, but wanted to let you know that I am childless and have a VERY fulfilling and happy life! While I may work more than 40 hours a week (in high tech, who doesn't?), my focus and fulfillment come from outside of work - friends, family, biking (a HUGE part of my life), skiing, snowmobiling...

This has been my first year of competitive cycling - something that I don't think I could have done with children, given the training requirements and travel schedules on the weekends to attend races. I am having a blast racing and training. It is amazing to see just how far I have come over the past year. I have races scheduled until the middle of December, and then I will transition into ski/snowmobile season!

My point in sharing this with you is that there are PLENTY of childless women out there, either by choice or unfortunate circumstance, who lead happy, fulfilling lives that aren't necessarily just defined by a career. I love my job too, but it is not what defines me. I guess this is what you would call the "other" side .

SheFly

[Bluetree]

But at some point I realized that I was lacking good role models for living a happy life without children.. That is one reason I started spending more time here at TE, honestly ... I noticed a lot woman about five to ten years older than I am, without kids, who seemed to be having pretty fulfilling lives.

Xeney, I am one of those people who never wants/wanted children. I knew it from an early age. Perhaps being an artist (a driven one at that) has something to do with it. My life revolves around creating art so I’ve never had the urge to create another human being. Similarly, I work with horses so I never have a shortage of lifeforms to nurture and care for, including working for charities that nurses back to health horses rescued from slaughterhouse pens.

I think almost all women have these needs of creation and caregiving, but I’m not convinced that having children is the only answer out there. There are a lot of wonderful, humane and selfless things that women can do to make the world a better place... and we have the power, the will and generosity of spirit to do so.

She says my concerns are ‘stupid’ and that I’ll ‘change my mind’ once I hit my mid to late 20s... I’m not so sure. I just know how people tend to look back and say “You knew how you felt in the first place- why are you suddenly bringing this up now?!” when the time to make an actual decision on something comes.

I’ve been telling people my whole life that I never wanted kids. Many of them say that “You’ll change your mind,” or “Just wait and see,” or some other nonsense. I find that response arrogant and patronizing. In my 39-years of existence, I can’t recall ever telling anyone that their personal beliefs and aspirations were a passing phase... even if I did not agree with it.

Many people who want/have kids simply cannot fathom why others don’t. My parents consider it one’s duty to procreate. My family’s ancestral home/estate dates back to the 1500s and the family tree is a wall decoration (it actually covers the whole wall). Talk about pressure! But even my lifelong refusal to breed has not dissuaded my parents’ hopes and expectations. So even if you are up front with your SOs, sometimes it never sinks in.

My agent of six years recently went through a very bad breakup with his GF, just because of this. 16 years her senior, Ed told her (and it was no secret) that he did not want to have children. Gail was convinced she could change his mind and tried for five years, getting more and more miserable and resentful until she finally had a breakdown and left him. It was sad, but in her burning desire to be a mother she never paid attention to the truth in front of her.

[GLC1968]

I’ve been telling people my whole life that I never wanted kids. Many of them say that “You’ll change your mind,” or “Just wait and see,” or some other nonsense. I find that response arrogant and patronizing. In my 39-years of existence, I can’t recall ever telling anyone that their personal beliefs and aspirations were a passing phase... even if I did not agree with it.

Me too.

Xeney - while I have never wanted children (and I was lucky enough to fall in love with a man who felt the same way), I do find myself 'wavering' for all the wrong reasons. Luckily, my DH keeps me in check. I'm 38 and have been married for 3.5 years. My friends are all either my age with careers who are just now having kids, or younger than me who got married around the same time as me (met on a wedding planning board) who are now starting to have kids. Then we moved to an area where family (ie: kids) is expected. I find myself telling people 'we'll see' when they ask when we'll start trying just because it's too hard to explain 'I don't want to be a mother'. I can see how those who do want children and who don't have them (for whatever reason...some of my single girlfriends are freaking out about aging childless because they haven't met the right guy yet), would feel alienated, left out, jealous...all the above. It's hard to be childfree in a world where children are worshipped.

Someday I hope to make better peace with my decision (I know its right...it's just hard) and I pray that with age, also comes wisdom (and a few childfree friends!). Keep looking for your role models...not all of us who are childfree are miserable (or if we are, perhaps it's not because something is missing...but because society tells us we are weird! )

[Eden]

I’ve been telling people my whole life that I never wanted kids. Many of them say that “You’ll change your mind,” or “Just wait and see,” or some other nonsense. I find that response arrogant and patronizing. In my 39-years of existence, I can’t recall ever telling anyone that their personal beliefs and aspirations were a passing phase... even if I did not agree with it.

Many people who want/have kids simply cannot fathom why others don’t. My parents consider it one’s duty to procreate.

I sooo understand. I'm another childless by choice person. I've heard all of the same comments, been told I'm selfish, I'll change my mind, I'll regret it etc. etc. I knew I did not want to be responsible for kids from a very early age - I was a teenager and I already knew it. I had figured that I probably would be single forever too, but I found a guy who was just as sure he did not want kids too and we've been very happy together. Fortunately for us we live 2,000 miles from most of our relatives, so the pressure is not constant, as we are still young enough for his folks to hold out hopes (mine know I won't change my mind).

I've never been a maternal kind of person. I have two cats and they are a handful enough - I'm not even dog material, much less kid material as far as providing the kind of care and supervision that raising a child (or a dog) requires. I really think that it is better to know you don't want kids than to have kids and then figure it out, which far too many people seem to do. I'm not a kid hater. I just know its better for me and for any possible child to not go there. There are people who are completely cut out for it. My husband knows some guys who are the best dads you could see. One guy has 7 I think and I can't imagine telling him he shouldn't have had them. He's a great dad and all kids deserve one like him.

I certainly don't feel unfulfilled in any manner, by not having kids. I definitely don't fit into the category of just working longer and longer hours and being miserable. In fact I've been pretty adamant about not working unpaid overtime, because I want time to take care of me - and right now I'm just been laid off and I don't plan to go right back to work. Not having kids means I can be totally flexible with my life. I don't have to plan everything out and around the schedule of the kids. My husband and I have been able to travel and take time off from working if we wish to without the kind of financial worries having dependants brings. We can be spontaneous - stay another day, go somewhere on a moments notice, do nothing if we choose. I just don't feel like I need to leave a legacy. Like She-fly I've just completed my first year of racing and I doubt I would have even considered it if I had kids to take care of - especially not with both of us racing, there wouldn't have been anyone left to watch the kids. (yes there are plenty of women on the team with kids -and some with both parents involved in racing- I don't know how they manage)

Maybe you see what you want to see, but I feel like we've seen the opposite from Xeney. We've seen many of my husband's co-workers with kids seem miserable compared to the childless ones - maybe because its guys and not women?? They seem to have nothing but worries over how they are going to support their families, and they feel trapped in horrible jobs, being forced to work longer and longer hours to keep said jobs so that they can pay for all of the things their families demand. Medical bills, private school, mortgage in a suburb. Sure, you don't need these things to have kids, but the pressure to have them is there so they work and stress and work some more. One of the saddest things I heard was a guy in the next cubicle from my husband listening to his kid's violin recital over the phone.... My husband quit from that company without finding another job first- a luxury that his coworkers with kids could not afford.

Anyway - I don't think anyone should feel bad, what ever decision they make. Having kids or not having kids is a very personal thing. You need to know if you want and are ready to do it, not just have them because it is expected and society tells you to. There are far too many unwanted / neglected kids from all walks of life - and you don't have to be poor to neglect a kid. Teenagers who commit suicide, because daddy bought them a Toyota rather than a Lexus IMHO have been neglected too, even if it wasn't in a finiancial way. If you want kids and are emotionally and financially ready for it by all means do it. If you are just having kids because you think they will make your life complete, perhaps you ought to sit down and really think about it some more.

[Kitsune06]

I think the most frustrating part is that she knows that when xdh and I got married, a few months after, we agreed on a vasectomy so we would never have to worry. We were *that* sure. I'm afraid that she just chooses to believe I'll change my mind, and at some point once we've been together 7 or 8 years, she'll say "It's almost too late- I want to have a kid" or "It's too late- I can't!" or whatever and be upset at *me*... and I know I'm not 'selfish'. I was about 6 when I learned women didn't "automatically" have children, and it was the happiest revelation of my young life. I've never wanted children. Conversely, it's always been something she's wanted... and i'm afraid it'll end in grave disappointment or the like. Sure I have thought parenthood out- thoroughly. And it thoroughly terrifies me. I'd rather be an aunt or "aunt"... just babysitting for friends' children...

It was being at TE that made me realize that a) I may never change my mind on this b) it's not 'wrong', I'm not somehow mentally 'defective'... it's just the way I am... and I'm not ashamed... just afraid of what the future might hold.

[emily_in_nc]

Emily, thank you so much for your post. I'm 37 and I am in a pretty bad transition stage ... a year ago my husband didn't want kids but had a fairly open mind about the subject, then I got accidentally pregnant and had a miscarriage in May, then we were ambivalent and not really trying but I had a couple of chemical pregnancies, then he said he didn't want to try, now he's back to being open to the possibilities, but I just had my first half-hearted appointment with the doctor and there is apparently some concern that I am not ovulating properly and might need assistance to get pregnant again. And I think my husband's ambivalence, plus my absolute terror of having another miscarriage, is enough that we probably won't go that route.

This sounds a lot like where we were -- I was 36 when I miscarried. My husband was always more ambivalent about having children than I was. I wanted it so badly, where he could go either way. So we did argue quite a bit about continuing the infertility treatments (I initially wanted to, he didn't), and in the end, I let him "win" because it was such a painful road to go down with so many seemingly inevitable disappointments. Expensive too! And like you, I was terrified that I might get pregnant again (through IVF), only to suffer another loss -- that was scarier in many ways than never being pregnant again.

For various professional reasons, most of my female colleagues are older than I am, and about half of them don't have children. At some point I noticed that that was definitely the unhappy half. They weren't taking advantage of their freedoms to do anything but work a lot of unpaid overtime, they were just a pretty unhappy group. I don't know if the unhappiness is a cause or effect or totally unrelated to not having kids, but I have been looking for some happy role models for a while, pretty unsuccessfully.

Yes, it can be hard to find us, but we're out here! I got lucky in that a few long-term friends ended up choosing the childfree path for entirely different reasons than me, and I made another friend in the infertility forums when we were both going through it together. We supported each other through the roller coaster, and like me, she was ultimately unsuccessful in her quest to have a child but is now happily remarried to a wonderful guy and living a great life in her late 40s. There are also a couple of childfree gals at work who are happy and have great lives, and don't live just to work longer hours.

The other group of women I've found to be fun to hang out and do things with is those who had their child(ren) young and are now empty-nesters. They aren't wheeling baby strollers or coaching soccer, and most are actively involved in hobbies (like cycling) and other healthy pursuits that interest them at this stage in their lives. Most of these women are in their 40s and 50s but have a youthful zest for life and could care less if I have children as it's just not a main topic of conversation or a huge focus in their lives any more.

I used to be hugely jealous of pregnant women, moms with babies, moms with kids, etc, but now that my friends are getting older and their kids are getting up towards the difficult teen years, I found that that envy has melted away. My life is simpler and with fewer worries -- I never have to worry about my kid driving drunk or using drugs.

It really does get a lot better as you get older and the immediacy of the fertility struggle is in the past.

Emily

[mtkitchn]

Nokomis,
Have you considered a support group or a counselor? If it is a issue which bothers you on a regular basis, you should talk to someone who understands what you are going through.
Sue

[rocknrollgirl]

I too am childless by choice, but it breaks my heart when I hear about women that really want children and are having trouble. I am very sorry that you are having a difficult time.

It was difficult when I was younger, peoples expectations of what I was supposed to do clashing with my own choice, but in the end, at the end of the day, it was still my choice.

I am sorry that you are hurting......


Ruth

[Offthegrid]

I'm sorry you're having this trouble. My brother and his wife have been trying for years without luck, and she found out that she has hyperthyroid. (Not that infertility and thyroids are necessarily related -- I have no clue about that -- but it's the only thing the testing has shown so far.)

I find myself lonely and single at 27. I was in a 4-year relationship and was engaged, but recently I called it off for various reasons. (Mainly, I was paying all the bills, while he was racking up credit card debt on who knows what. Also, he'd get mad if I went and did something on my own, but never wanted to do anything.)

I'm so happy to be out of this relationship, but it does raise the question: Will I ever meet someone? I'm not in a hurry to have kids, but I definitely am starting to feel the pressure.

But I get to be around kids because I tutor at a city school district and I help coach soccer.

[CyclChyk]

Offthegrid - I was a product of a very bad divorce and swore I would never marry. I was not looking when it hit me. I married at 31. Not old, but not at an age when people *assumed* I should already be married.

Also, we both decided we did not want kids and made it so we would not have any. We have no regrets. And if we wake up in our 40's and just KNOW that we want a kid, we both agree we will adopt. There are so many unwanted kids out there. And it would be a gift to all concerned if that is an avenue we take.

You will find someone. It may not be tomorrow but it will happen in its own time. And until then, just enjoy not having to answer to anyone for anything. (I think that's the one thing I miss about being single).

[doc]

I definitely don't want to upset you, but I have never understood not wanting to adopt. I absolutely don't want to make you uncomfortable or put pressure on you but I wonder what your reasons for avoiding adoption are. (Please don't think I'm asking you to state them here, I just say it to encourage you to possibly revisit the idea).

I have taken care of so many adopted children. Some have been adopted from other countries, some from the same township and everything in between. Some have been the same race as the parents, some have not. The families are just like any other family. They experience love, pride, joy, heartache, fear, and everything else like any other family. The only difference I've noticed is in the few families who try to keep it a secret. Those who are matter-of-fact usually find adoption is a complete non-issue.

One of my favorite stories is a friend of mine who is white and married to a korean. They couldn't concieve so they arranged to adopt a korean baby. Then, of course she immediately became pregnant. The baby physically takes after her father. So when she would be out taking care of two little "asian" babies less than 9 months apart people would ask her if she is the babysitter! It drove her nuts (in a funny way, not a bad way)