Okay, I'm gonna give these the thumbs up. I had a blast riding at Mt Hood yesterday, and the shorts did not interfere with my enjoyment of my new carbon parts. The only gripes I have are that they don't really have much length in the back, which I like so when I'm on the bike I can still say no to crack. The length is tolerable, my Craft shorts are about two inches longer, but I know what you guys mean about other shorts being really long. Don't want them to my knees, thanks. The legs fit me kind of wierd in circumference, but that's probably just me. I dunno though, for $50 bucks, I got my favorite chamois. Can't even touch that at the Pearl Izumi outlet.

love and cookies
-smurf