how many seasons and/or miles til experienced?

[GLC1968]

OK, I had to come back here and post about this. When Velogirl mentioned that we steer with our hips, I thought to myself "well, of course...sure...that makes sense" but I never actually thought about it while on the bike, until last night. On my commute home (in the parking lot before I left), I decided to try paying attention to how I was steering. Small swerves were done with my hips, but when I needed to turn big, I used my handlebars. So then I tried to not use my handlebars. I gripped my bike a little harder with my legs and leaned into the turns more. It was like a big ole lightbulb went on in my head!! OMG...so THIS is how the guys I ride with make those turns so tightly? The rest of the ride home, I found myself looking forward to turns where there were no traffic lights so that I could practice turning at a good clip. Then I did the same thing coming in this morning. Turns are fun...who knew?!

One small comment and I've just made a sizable leap in my cycling abilities!! Man, I love TE!! (and special thanks to Velogirl for stating what seemed to be the obvious...but in reality, isn't! )

[velogirl]

OK, I had to come back here and post about this. When Velogirl mentioned that we steer with our hips, I thought to myself "well, of course...sure...that makes sense" but I never actually thought about it while on the bike, until last night. On my commute home (in the parking lot before I left), I decided to try paying attention to how I was steering. Small swerves were done with my hips, but when I needed to turn big, I used my handlebars. So then I tried to not use my handlebars. I gripped my bike a little harder with my legs and leaned into the turns more. It was like a big ole lightbulb went on in my head!! OMG...so THIS is how the guys I ride with make those turns so tightly? The rest of the ride home, I found myself looking forward to turns where there were no traffic lights so that I could practice turning at a good clip. Then I did the same thing coming in this morning. Turns are fun...who knew?!

One small comment and I've just made a sizable leap in my cycling abilities!! Man, I love TE!! (and special thanks to Velogirl for stating what seemed to be the obvious...but in reality, isn't! )

Steering (slight changes in direction) and cornering are actually different skills. For cornering, we use a skill called counter-steering: outside leg down and weighted (you're standing on it), inside arm pushing the bar, bike leaning into the turn, body leaning back out, outside thigh pushing into the saddle nose, and looking (with your head, not just your eyes) around the turn. Oh, and I also recommend leading with your inside knee although some folks teach that you grab the top tube with your inside knee. Much easier to do than describe.

The only time we actually use the bar to steer or corner is at very low speed -- under 7mph (ie mountain bike switchbacks or something similar).

[GLC1968]

outside leg down and weighted (you're standing on it), inside arm pushing the bar, bike leaning into the turn, body leaning back out, outside thigh pushing into the saddle nose, and looking (with your head, not just your eyes) around the turn.

That's a mouthful! Actually, as I stand here at my desk trying to imagine what you are saying...I *think* this is what I was doing with my bike this morning. The position that your description puts me into feels like what I felt like on my bike when I really pushed the turn. I did grip the tube with my inside knee, but I can see how having it out would be a benefit as well. Very interesting!

I can definitely say that doing this I felt more like my bike was an extension of me...or that I was DRIVING my bike and not just sitting on it while it moved.

[velogirl]

I can definitely say that doing this I felt more like my bike was an extension of me...or that I was DRIVING my bike and not just sitting on it while it moved.

That's what I try to teach folks, as corny and zen as it may sound. We want to ride "with" our bikes, not "on" our bikes.

[telegirl]

As a road rider/mountain biker/future cyclocrosslass, I have to say that mountain biking has GREATLY improved my road handling skills. HOWEVER, I just can't seem to get the 'cornering' thing. I think I am the only mountain biker on earth who dreads going downhill - mainly because of cornering. Bikehubby's trails are very switchbacky (is that a word?), windy, full of close trees and I love them....uphill. I can do uphill switchbacks, but downhill???? Dab-city. Slam on Brakes County. Endo when brakes work too good State. I get the feeling that Rocky might rather do the corners himself and just have me wait at the bottom.

Why is this cornering thing so difficult to grasp???

And I think that Velo has a great point, way back at the beginning....we just all hop on a bike and if we remain upright, then we can ride! Woohoo! But the more I get into it, the more I realize that I need to know more!

[velogirl]

Fear is a big limiter in sports. When we go faster (ie dwnhill) it will hurt more if we crash. We feel out of control. We don't trust (ourselves, others, the trail or road, our equipment). As adults, we're taught to be in control, so releasing control in a situation like this is difficult. You're not alone in your fear of descending. That's probably the #1 skill that I teach.

In order to learn to descend correctly, you need to learn to corner first. Descending switchbacks or a curvy road is the same skill as cornering. We use counter-steering (described above). I recently participated in a mtn bike clinic with Marla Streb (yep, I'm name dropping) and she describes it as body-bike separation. In order to engage a larger contact patch on the tire, you have to lean the bike (a lot), but to do that you have to counter with your weight on the opposite side. One of the best ways to learn this is to practice on a flat field or lot. Once you feel okay on the grass, progress to dirt or gravel (still flat). Then, you have to consciously learn to do this as you descend. Eventually, it will become intuitive and you won't have to think about it.

[spokewench]

Nice Description Velo girl. Another thing that I finally learned on corning on a mountain bike a few years ago - it was kind of a zen experience - is that especially in a tight corner - you need to go into the corner wide and then it is easier to come around. I used to try to cut the corner too tight and then run out of room going round. Let's see if I can describe it - putting my front tire practically to the burm on the turn and then turning the rest of the bike.

Don't know if that was much of a description but it sure helped me once I figured it out.

[telegirl]

Me = Jealous, Velo-

Fear is a bit limiter for me - For some reason, I'm not a big fan of pain....and then the last time I was at the ER after mountain biking, they had a group of people come in and talk to me about the signs of abuse....but they wouldn't let me press charges against my mountain bike.....

Those are good points, Velo and spokewench - And I think it is practice, practice, practice, but sometimes, I feel like I have reached a plateau on skills and just need someone to push me off....Um, so, Velo.....how about coming out to ride Vermont trails... maybe slip in a workshop or three....

[BeeLady]

Could this be "Jeremy?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI7GEE36uS8

[HappyAnika]

Think what VeloGirl said in the beginning is a really good point, about how we wouldn't try to drive a car without instruction, so why would we do that on a bike? I have also been reflecting upon my first season as a new rider and thinking about what I want to accomplish next season. Improving my handling skills is at the top of the list, primarily for descending (which I love and I want to do it even faster) and obstacle avoidance (the bike paths, I'm sorry "multi-use" paths, can get very crowded). I was so shocked when I first got my bike and tried reaching for my water bottle (in the cage) and I could barely take my hand off the bars. I figured since I could do this on my mtb (not that I'm a mtb rider), I should be able to do it straight away on my road bike. WRONG! I've worked up to being able to do it while pedaling, next I'd like to be able to do it with my right hand as well. Oh, and the snot thing is funny, my nose runs at the slightest bit of wind or cold, so I'm the kleenex queen. I was so happy when I learned how to reach in my jersey pocket for my tissue and blow my nose while keeping pace. There isn't really enough of it for a snot rocket, but often too much for the glove alone . . .

The most impressive thing I've ever seen on a bike was in the TDF when one of the riders was having a problem with his rear derailleur. The mechanic pulled up in the car on his left side, reached through the rider and his top tube and around to adjust the derailleur, meanwhile the rider could not touch the car, so he maintained his hands on his bars, all at around 25 mph, OMG.