how many seasons and/or miles til experienced?

[BeeLady]

Re Water Bottles: are we talking about a) taking them out of our WB holders while riding or b) picking them up off the ground while riding by?

I've been out trying to pick them up off the ground while riding by -- gonna take a lot more practice for that and that's on a "girl's" bike w/ dropped top tube. Don't even think I'll practice it with a regular top tube.

So, real question is, how can I get five-year's experience in six months?

[GLC1968]

So, real question is, how can I get five-year's experience in six months?

THIS is why the article was so interesting! The guy (Jeremy) needed to learn quick...otherwise, he was a danger to himself and his fellow riders. I think that for most of us, it doesn't happen so quickly...so we have time to develop our skills at a normal pace. How many women (or men, for that matter) decide to start riding and within 3 months are riding with the 'A' riders at a pace of 20mph? I'm guessing not many! Yes, they are out there and those are the people that need to develop their skills at an accelerated pace (steeply...like SK said!). The rest of us can work on it as we build up our miles.

And seriously, for those of you wondering...don't let the inability to pick a water bottle off the ground keep you from riding on the roads or with a group! Just pick a group that suits your pace/skill level. I'm a solid intermediate rider and I cannot pick up a bottle from the groud. I would not join an advanced group ride not just because the fear of being dropped (which really doesn't bother me) but more because I'm not skilled enough to hang with a paceline at 25 mph. I want to develop better handling skills because I want to race one day, but until that day, I'm sure as hell going to do what I can to improve on my own.

[BeeLady]

Good points GLC - I'm sure not a threat to any 25 mph pace line.

A skill I would like to improve is no hands while in my clips (which I would never do around any other rider!). Made progress today but have to be on smooth pavement and start with feet in 3 and 9 position, get balanced and only then can I pedal. Use to be able to do this easily in the 70s, but then wasnt clipless (nor did I use clips).

I still haven't gotten endos for my flat bar and my hands get numb after awhile so this to me is more necessary than picking up a water bottle from the ground.

[tygab]

And seriously, for those of you wondering...don't let the inability to pick a water bottle off the ground keep you from riding on the roads or with a group! Just pick a group that suits your pace/skill level. I'm a solid intermediate rider and I cannot pick up a bottle from the groud. I would not join an advanced group ride not just because the fear of being dropped (which really doesn't bother me) but more because I'm not skilled enough to hang with a paceline at 25 mph. I want to develop better handling skills because I want to race one day, but until that day, I'm sure as hell going to do what I can to improve on my own.

Most certainly I agree. I am not letting my inability to do all kinds of things keep me from riding, nor should anyone else. I am just realizing that I don't know what I don't know... and this article made me think about it, as of course has this board. My 3rd group ride ever was with oh, 4000 others give or take, and in hindsight I learned a lot on that ride. I knew it'd be a lot of people and so I rode pretty defensively anyway, but I learned a lot just by watching others and being out in the masses. Maybe that level of immersion training isn't the best idea, but it's what I did and now group riding seems pretty manageable whether its 3 or 100. (Well, except pacelines and formations, that's another level).

All these answers have given me ideas though. I have never done parking lot drills and it sounds like a great idea - the zigzag, the braking, the figure 8s, all of it. Sure, most of you stumbled upon these things through riding a lot, but by your telling me I can have some ideas of things to try that will help my cycling without having to stumble upon all of it. I will probably try some of this on my old sturdy mtn bike, first, then progress to the road bike.

I'm sure I'll still make my own discoveries too, and I won't come back and say "hey how come none of you ever told me about <XYZ>." I realize that's not how it works. But the fun part is sharing the knowledge, so I appreciate all the input that's come out in the thread.

[GLC1968]

OK, I had to come back here and post about this. When Velogirl mentioned that we steer with our hips, I thought to myself "well, of course...sure...that makes sense" but I never actually thought about it while on the bike, until last night. On my commute home (in the parking lot before I left), I decided to try paying attention to how I was steering. Small swerves were done with my hips, but when I needed to turn big, I used my handlebars. So then I tried to not use my handlebars. I gripped my bike a little harder with my legs and leaned into the turns more. It was like a big ole lightbulb went on in my head!! OMG...so THIS is how the guys I ride with make those turns so tightly? The rest of the ride home, I found myself looking forward to turns where there were no traffic lights so that I could practice turning at a good clip. Then I did the same thing coming in this morning. Turns are fun...who knew?!

One small comment and I've just made a sizable leap in my cycling abilities!! Man, I love TE!! (and special thanks to Velogirl for stating what seemed to be the obvious...but in reality, isn't! )

[velogirl]

OK, I had to come back here and post about this. When Velogirl mentioned that we steer with our hips, I thought to myself "well, of course...sure...that makes sense" but I never actually thought about it while on the bike, until last night. On my commute home (in the parking lot before I left), I decided to try paying attention to how I was steering. Small swerves were done with my hips, but when I needed to turn big, I used my handlebars. So then I tried to not use my handlebars. I gripped my bike a little harder with my legs and leaned into the turns more. It was like a big ole lightbulb went on in my head!! OMG...so THIS is how the guys I ride with make those turns so tightly? The rest of the ride home, I found myself looking forward to turns where there were no traffic lights so that I could practice turning at a good clip. Then I did the same thing coming in this morning. Turns are fun...who knew?!

One small comment and I've just made a sizable leap in my cycling abilities!! Man, I love TE!! (and special thanks to Velogirl for stating what seemed to be the obvious...but in reality, isn't! )

Steering (slight changes in direction) and cornering are actually different skills. For cornering, we use a skill called counter-steering: outside leg down and weighted (you're standing on it), inside arm pushing the bar, bike leaning into the turn, body leaning back out, outside thigh pushing into the saddle nose, and looking (with your head, not just your eyes) around the turn. Oh, and I also recommend leading with your inside knee although some folks teach that you grab the top tube with your inside knee. Much easier to do than describe.

The only time we actually use the bar to steer or corner is at very low speed -- under 7mph (ie mountain bike switchbacks or something similar).

[GLC1968]

outside leg down and weighted (you're standing on it), inside arm pushing the bar, bike leaning into the turn, body leaning back out, outside thigh pushing into the saddle nose, and looking (with your head, not just your eyes) around the turn.

That's a mouthful! Actually, as I stand here at my desk trying to imagine what you are saying...I *think* this is what I was doing with my bike this morning. The position that your description puts me into feels like what I felt like on my bike when I really pushed the turn. I did grip the tube with my inside knee, but I can see how having it out would be a benefit as well. Very interesting!

I can definitely say that doing this I felt more like my bike was an extension of me...or that I was DRIVING my bike and not just sitting on it while it moved.

[velogirl]

I can definitely say that doing this I felt more like my bike was an extension of me...or that I was DRIVING my bike and not just sitting on it while it moved.

That's what I try to teach folks, as corny and zen as it may sound. We want to ride "with" our bikes, not "on" our bikes.