Wow, roadies are a-holes...who knew?

[SadieKate]

Warning, SadieKate is ranting again. A life lesson it’s taken a while to learn but made my rides so much more fun.

I think there are arguments on both sides of the waving issue. I also can get a little miffed over being ignored but I try not to expend anger and energy on it. I’ve realized over the years that everyone has their own agenda out on a ride and your expectations may not match up with the other riders’.

So s/he didn’t wave back? Were they perhaps lost in thought about a personal issue (such as a parent with recurring cancer or a child having problems in school). Are they riding sprint intervals and focused on maintaining a maximum pace? Are they chatting with someone else over a personal issue and listening to the friend’s response? Were they concentrating on a weird sound coming from their bike? From your car, do you wave at each and every driver on the road and expect them to wave back? The only time I see drivers wave at each other is rural farm roads. You do the one or two finger lift off the steering wheel and drive on. In the city (or on a crowded bike path), someone trying to wave at everyone becomes a nuisance and a danger because they aren’t concentrating on the congestion ahead.

My rides are so much more enjoyable since I’ve learned to laugh at people who actually look at you and then turn away but I don’t get angry or upset or call them names; they'd probably do the same thing in an elevator. I do call them names (and a-hole has definitely been the word of choice) if they do something unsafe which generally means they are riding the same direction as I. They pass on the right, pass too close, pass without warning, swerve in front of me, stop without warning, etc., etc., etc. Men and women are equally guilty.

This doesn’t mean you should stop waving but I hope you will become more sensitive to others’ agendas. As far as telling someone they should slow down and enjoy the ride more, why don’t you try a few rides with your legs screaming and your heart in your throat? Both have their place but you’ll find you can’t wave during the latter. You may also not be noticing the subtle finger wiggle from the bars. If you consistently expect more from me, I guess I’m an a-hole also. I fit the greeting or lack thereof to the circumstances of my chosen ride that day.

As far as the slams against men, both Mr. Jobob and Mr SadieKate are wavers par excellence. I’ve also been told by men that they are very careful about offering help to women because of the number of times they’ve been rudely snubbed. It’s a two-way street.

The upshot is, behave courteously but don’t get upset about a response that doesn’t meet your expectations. The other rider’s behavior isn’t necessarily wrong or discourteous but fits within their agenda for the day. Ride your own ride and find the zen of it.

PS - this in no way prevents me from maintaining the right to make sarcastic comments about people who look at you and then away, or wear earphones.

[slinkedog]

Warning, SadieKate is ranting again. A life lesson it’s taken a while to learn but made my rides so much more fun.

I think there are arguments on both sides of the waving issue. I also can get a little miffed over being ignored but I try not to expend anger and energy on it. I’ve realized over the years that everyone has their own agenda out on a ride and your expectations may not match up with the other riders’.

So s/he didn’t wave back? Were they perhaps lost in thought about a personal issue (such as a parent with recurring cancer or a child having problems in school). Are they riding sprint intervals and focused on maintaining a maximum pace? Are they chatting with someone else over a personal issue and listening to the friend’s response? Were they concentrating on a weird sound coming from their bike? From your car, do you wave at each and every driver on the road and expect them to wave back? The only time I see drivers wave at each other is rural farm roads. You do the one or two finger lift off the steering wheel and drive on. In the city (or on a crowded bike path), someone trying to wave at everyone becomes a nuisance and a danger because they aren’t concentrating on the congestion ahead.

My rides are so much more enjoyable since I’ve learned to laugh at people who actually look at you and then turn away but I don’t get angry or upset or call them names; they'd probably do the same thing in an elevator. I do call them names (and a-hole has definitely been the word of choice) if they do something unsafe which generally means they are riding the same direction as I. They pass on the right, pass too close, pass without warning, swerve in front of me, stop without warning, etc., etc., etc. Men and women are equally guilty.

This doesn’t mean you should stop waving but I hope you will become more sensitive to others’ agendas. As far as telling someone they should slow down and enjoy the ride more, why don’t you try a few rides with your legs screaming and your heart in your throat? Both have their place but you’ll find you can’t wave during the latter. You may also not be noticing the subtle finger wiggle from the bars. If you consistently expect more from me, I guess I’m an a-hole also. I fit the greeting or lack thereof to the circumstances of my chosen ride that day.

As far as the slams against men, both Mr. Jobob and Mr SadieKate are wavers par excellence. I’ve also been told by men that they are very careful about offering help to women because of the number of times they’ve been rudely snubbed. It’s a two-way street.

The upshot is, behave courteously but don’t get upset about a response that doesn’t meet your expectations. The other rider’s behavior isn’t necessarily wrong or discourteous but fits within their agenda for the day. Ride your own ride and find the zen of it.

PS - this in no way prevents me from maintaining the right to make sarcastic comments about people who look at you and then away, or wear earphones.

SK, I love you.

[sarahannecycle]

I know when I first was on the road, I'd wave and say hi to everyone. That was part of my focus, seeing others out riding, and being thrilled to be a part of it. I'm in no way an expert rider now, but I am more focused, and sometimes I just forget until the person's already past me. I agree with pp that being startled by someone speeding by is the worst part, and I really try to make some noise (you know, say hello or on your right or whatever) when I'm coming up on people because that's scary for me. Now I'll nod at someone if I catch their eye, but I do wonder if they notice b/c our bodies do jiggle on bumps or whatever- maybe it's too subtle, but usually it's what I've got in me.

I think now, for me, it's a little more about belonging to a subgroup which is spandex clad on road bikes, and faster and identifying with what those people are doing. I ride a scooter too, and when I'm putting along with my little helmet I am much more likely to smile or nod at people who have scooters like mine, esp if they are also wearing a helmet. I almost am never acknowledged by a harley, crotch rocket or big motorcycle rider ESP if they aren't wearing a helmet. I'm just not "serious" to them. I am certain that I noticed this a lot more when I started riding that too, and now, if I catch the person's eye, I'll nod but I'm usually thinking about how great it is to be out solo and free!

I think people just like to see other people doing what they're doing-- it's connection (and of course there are plenty of snobby people out there too).

If I'm friendly or smile to a woman with a baby and I don't have my baby with me, it's just a different kind of reception. The list goes on.

If I see a group of women riding, usually what I'm thinking is "How did you find each other!!!???? and can I come with??" I also usually have a **** eating grin on my face, because they are out there too. Guys on bikes are just a given, so I pay less attention to them.

[SalsaMTB]

DH and I have sort of experienced the opposite when it comes to roadie vs. mountain biker. Waving, I would say about half wave back, half don't. I don't always wave though, sometimes I just want to focus and ride. I'll see someone on the other side of the street in the corner of my eye, but I don't focus on them, I focus on my path.

When I say though I've experienced the opposite I mean more in times of need. I was on a road ride w/ dh and others on my mountain bike and got a flat. I stopped to fix it as they went ahead. Every single roadie who passed slowed down to ask and I was OK and/or needed help. Every single one. Then, DH was on his way back and saw I was still working on it so he took over and I continued on his bike. Every single roadie that passed him also asked if he was OK. We were both talking about how nice all the roadies were when we were trying to fix the flat on our mountain bike.

On the other hand, DH crashed hard on one of the trails. Only one of many riders asked if he was OK, and it was more of a "you better say yes because I'm not slowing down" are you OK. Dh was sitting on the side of the trail, sans shoe, arms and legs bleeding, and his bike was on the other side of the trail. No one stopped to check on him. The one guy who did ask, didn't slow down and proceeded to tell him he better move his sunglasses because they're in the middle of the trail and might get run over. As Dh limped back to the trailhead with his bike, going the wrong way, still no one asked.

So, based on those experiences, I sort of think the roadies are nicer when it's needed. Sure they might not wave every time, but if you're stopped on the side of the road, they'll check up on ya. Can't say the same for the mountain bikers...

[SadieKate]

Oh, I've experienced jerks in every group. I've yet to have a roadie call me "Sweetheart" (said in a very nice way). If something ever happens to Bubba, I'll have to track that guy down . . . .

[Trekhawk]

Oh, I've experienced jerks in every group. I've yet to have a roadie call me "Sweetheart" (said in a very nice way). If something ever happens to Bubba, I'll have to track that guy down . . . .

LOL - Oohh Im telling on you.

[GLC1968]

I was just talking about this with a friend at lunch and we came across an interesting point.

When I lived in a major city (Boston, Tampa, etc), I rarely said 'hi', waved or even made eye contact with people when walking down the street. It just wasn't something most people did for whatever reason. Here in this place (the south), it's EXTREMELY common. To the point that when we were driving around with our realtor looking at houses, I just assumed that he knew EVERYONE here because everyone waved. Turns out, it wasn't that he knew these people...it's just how people here interact.

This is why it struck me as so odd that I'd be snubbed. I certainly don't expect everyone to wave (I know I don't always do so myself) but the look and then look away when the week before you waved to me (in the exact same place) just stood out like a huge social blunder. It made me think.

I just hope everyone here doesn't think I'm some super crazy chick who rides around all day waving frantically at every bike I see in the hopes that they'll wave back!

[xeney]

I did not mean to suggest that I think people are being cliquish if they don't wave to everyone they pass. I don't wave or say hi to 90% of the people we pass because we don't make eye contact, and I don't see how that can be construed as rude. (Although when I am riding alone, most of the male roadies passing in the other direction do say hello or nod or whatever. Maybe they ARE flirting and I am just naive.) I am thinking more about rest stops or flats or other times when it would be natural to say hi or offer help.

And even then, it might not always be cliquishness. If I'm on a mountain bike I don't have a tube to offer to someone on a road bike, and vice versa. My frame pump works for both kinds of valves so I can offer it to anyone who needs it, but not everyone carries that kind of pump. I also don't think cyclists have a responsibility to help each other fix flats, etc. -- it's nice to offer to help if someone looks like they forgot their pump or patch kit, and depending on how remote the area is you might be heading into "basic decency" territory to not leave someone stranded if you could have helped, but mostly I think it is fine if everybody just pays attention to their own ride.

[BadgerGirl]

I smile all of the time. I can't help it...I am having fun. I think that is a good greeting and I don't have to remove my hand to do it. I have waved and said "how are you doing?" to some people; it just depends.

But as long as you are bringing this topic up, I am wondering if people are just getting isolated. I grew up in the Midwest and it was common to say "hi" to people on the street; even if you didn't know them. As you were driving in the countryside, poeple would wave as they passed by. What happened to this gesture? And now we put up 6' fences to seperate our yards. When I was little, we played football in our neighbors back yards with the trees being the endzones. Are we becoming less social? And is this causing us to be rude, insensitive, angry, and worse? What do you all think?

[Bluetree]

I was thinking about this thread on a ride the other day. I wanted to see what kind of rider gave me the most response. It was early in the morning and the crowds were not out yet, so it was a small sampling. I passed only a hundred-or-so cyclists on a 25-mile ride and responses ranged from a nod, a smile, a fingers-off-the-hood-wave and a hearty "good morning!" but here are the results of my unofficial tally:

• Male roadies (relaxed pace): 60-70% said hi first or responded*
*Note: older roadies 30+ responded more often than younger ones
• Female roadies (relaxed pace): Only 3, but 2 responded.
• Roadies (in obvious training or paceline): Didn't bother, either way

• Male hybrid/MTBers/commuter: None said hi first, about 10% responded
• Female hybrid/MTBers/commuter: None said hi first, about half responded

• Male recreational bikers: None said hi first, about half responded
• Female recreational bikers: None said hi first, about half responded
Note: some were obvious tourists and may not have spoken English. Riders with kids responded most often.

To clarify, I was a 30-something 105-lb gal riding alone, on a Specialized road bike in full Castelli gear. I think roadies are just more accustomed to respond to their "own". I've even been told (jokingly, I think) by a couple of roadie pals, "You're one of us now."
Had I been on a hybrid, or if I had been wearing my Nellie Olson Rocks! sweatshirt, I'm sure my results would have been different. But that test is for another day...

[Aggie_Ama]

I smile all of the time. I can't help it...I am having fun. I think that is a good greeting and I don't have to remove my hand to do it. I have waved and said "how are you doing?" to some people; it just depends.

But as long as you are bringing this topic up, I am wondering if people are just getting isolated. I grew up in the Midwest and it was common to say "hi" to people on the street; even if you didn't know them. As you were driving in the countryside, poeple would wave as they passed by. What happened to this gesture? And now we put up 6' fences to seperate our yards. When I was little, we played football in our neighbors back yards with the trees being the endzones. Are we becoming less social? And is this causing us to be rude, insensitive, angry, and worse? What do you all think?

Good question Badger. My university had a tradition of saying "Howdy" to everyone you made eye contact with while on campus. It was such a friendly environment, even though the enrollment was 44,000 my freshman year. To this day when I am wearing one of my shirts from there in public I will get a "Howdy".

If I just say hi to complete strangers at the store they think I am a) Flirting (happily married, thanks) b) Selling something or c) Too odd to give the time of day to. Rarely would I get a happy smile back, it is usually a puzzled look.

[PinkBike]

I know when I first was on the road, I'd wave and say hi to everyone. That was part of my focus, seeing others out riding, and being thrilled to be a part of it. I'm in no way an expert rider now, but I am more focused, and sometimes I just forget until the person's already past me. I agree with pp that being startled by someone speeding by is the worst part, and I really try to make some noise (you know, say hello or on your right or whatever) when I'm coming up on people because that's scary for me. Now I'll nod at someone if I catch their eye, but I do wonder if they notice b/c our bodies do jiggle on bumps or whatever- maybe it's too subtle, but usually it's what I've got in me.

I think now, for me, it's a little more about belonging to a subgroup which is spandex clad on road bikes, and faster and identifying with what those people are doing. I ride a scooter too, and when I'm putting along with my little helmet I am much more likely to smile or nod at people who have scooters like mine, esp if they are also wearing a helmet. I almost am never acknowledged by a harley, crotch rocket or big motorcycle rider ESP if they aren't wearing a helmet. I'm just not "serious" to them. I am certain that I noticed this a lot more when I started riding that too, and now, if I catch the person's eye, I'll nod but I'm usually thinking about how great it is to be out solo and free!

I think people just like to see other people doing what they're doing-- it's connection (and of course there are plenty of snobby people out there too).

If I'm friendly or smile to a woman with a baby and I don't have my baby with me, it's just a different kind of reception. The list goes on.

If I see a group of women riding, usually what I'm thinking is "How did you find each other!!!???? and can I come with??" I also usually have a **** eating grin on my face, because they are out there too. Guys on bikes are just a given, so I pay less attention to them.

i totally agree with sarahannecycle, when i commuted on my mountain bike i felt a kinship with mountain bikers, now that i'm a 100% roadie i feel a connection with roadies. but i always stop for someone who looks like they need help, whatever they're riding. i saw a woman on a cruiser stopped on the side of a road, and i stopped and asked her if she needed anything, and she went on and on about how i was the only bicyclist who stopped. turns out she didnt need help, was just checking out the complex. another time was like destiny, i was driving my truck and saw a woman pushing her bike, and i picked her up and brought her and the bike back to my house and fixed her tire - it was perfect because i had mountain bike tubes and slime that i didnt know what to do with!!

kids are the greatest, ALWAYS wave to kids, it makes them feel special.

[SouthernBelle]

I love it when kids get excited to see me on the road. I've had that happen several times.

I won't necessarily stop for someone who just looks like they are taking a break. But I usually give a shout out.

To whoever it was in NC who didn't see other roadies, in the South you aren't going to see them in the summer unless you are out early. We start organized rides early to beat the heat.

[betagirl]

I'm not sure that it's that they're "roadies" but more a reflection of their personality. Like stopping or pausing to see if you're ok if you have a mechanical. Would these people stop if you were having an issue walking on the sidewalk (like twisted your ankle or something)? There's also a social phenomenon called the diffusion of responsibility, where people basically assume someone else will stop and help. So nobody ends up stopping and helping. I assume though that as a basis of comparison mtn bikers stop? Maybe because you're not out on the road it's perceived differently? Just a thought.

I'm a "roadie" and I don't say hello or wave to most people I pass. I smile and nod. But not always. Sometimes I'm in my own little world and am thinking about whatever. I may be crabby and not feeling all that outgoing or social. Why is there a requirement that because you're on your bike you need to be so friendly? We don't go around waving at each other in our cars. Again, just playing devils advocate I know, cycling is a community supposedly. And it is nice when we're all more courteous and kind to each other. It did used to bother me if people wouldn't return the wave or smile. Now it's not a big deal to me. I guess I'm complacent.

As for the reaction based on your bike. This I've seen. Though I don't have a hybrid. But I do have a fixed gear that I just started riding. 99% of the messengers in the city ride fixed gears. I usually don't get acknowledged by them when I'm on my Trek, but today I got a couple of nods.

I've ridden with a couple of clubs, and yes there are some a-holes in there. But some are nice guys, down to earth. The club I ride with now is more down to earth than the last one. I had one guy stay with me when I fell off the group and helped pull me back up. He could have easily dropped me. I could probably never return the favor, so I got him a cup of coffee when we were done

For me cycling is more what I get out of it. When I start getting bent out of shape because of how other people act, it loses some appeal. Just my $.02