Changed my stem today-WOW! riding on cloud 9

[annie]

Happy for you Lisa!!! Glad such a simple adjustment made such a world of difference.

annie

[emily_in_nc]

Hi Lisa,

Glad to hear the stem change worked for you; however, one reason for WSD bikes with shorter top tubes for a given seat tube size is so that standard (9-10cm) stems can be used. A 5 cm stem is quite short and can cause the front end of your bike to handle a bit squirrely. I used to ride a Terry Isis with a 6.5 cm stem, and that was one of my few complaints about it. When I changed to a bike with a 9 cm stem, I instantly felt more in control of the front end.

Here's a little article on determining the proper stem length for you that you (and others) might find interesting; I knew nothing about stems when I started riding and have learned a bit since then!
http://www.ehow.com/how_14135_determ...rect-stem.html
Good that you moved your saddle back - moving it all the way forward to better reach the handlebars isn't very good for your knees or climbing power. Ideally, a plumb bob dropped from the front of your kneecap of the leg in a 3 o'clock (front horizontal) position on the pedal should intersect the pedal spindle, or be behind it, not in front of it, which is how your initial set up might have been. This is sometimes called KOPS (knee over pedal spindle). If you have to move your saddle way forward to comfortably reach the bars, your top tube is probably too long....

Emily

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Hi Lisa,

Glad to hear the stem change worked for you; however, one reason for WSD bikes with shorter top tubes for a given seat tube size is so that standard (9-10cm) stems can be used. A 5 cm stem is quite short and can cause the front end of your bike to handle a bit squirrely. I used to ride a Terry Isis with a 6.5 cm stem, and that was one of my few complaints about it. When I changed to a bike with a 9 cm stem, I instantly felt more in control of the front end.

Here's a little article on determining the proper stem length for you that you (and others) might find interesting; I knew nothing about stems when I started riding and have learned a bit since then!
http://www.ehow.com/how_14135_determ...rect-stem.html
Good that you moved your saddle back - moving it all the way forward to better reach the handlebars isn't very good for your knees or climbing power. Ideally, a plumb bob dropped from the front of your kneecap of the leg in a 3 o'clock (front horizontal) position on the pedal should intersect the pedal spindle, or be behind it, not in front of it, which is how your initial set up might have been. This is sometimes called KOPS (knee over pedal spindle). If you have to move your saddle way forward to comfortably reach the bars, your top tube is probably too long....

Emily

Thanks Emily!
I read the article:
"Correct stem length for your bike by Trevor Williams
To get an approximate length for your stem, first ensure that your saddle height and position (front to back) are correct. Now place your elbow against the front of the saddle with your hand outstretched, the center of your handle bars should be approximately 3cm (two finger widths) beyond the finger-tips of your outstretched hand."

Happy to report that my new stem puts my bars at the above recommended 2 finger width position exactly.

I think you are right about that KOPS thing- and that is now corrected as well with my seat not all the way forward anymore. Now my saddle is right in the middle position on its rails, so I am more comfortable and I still have leeway for further fine tuning. When we chose the new stem we took into account that we would be wanting to slide the seat back a centimeter too. So overall difference after all was said and done is 3cm.
I don't think my top tube is too long- I feel SO comfortable and balanced now! Rivendell frames have different dimensions and more relaxed geometry than most typical road bikes (that's also why they are sized differently)- they make them specifically to be more comfortable for longer riding under diverse conditions- not just for racing.
As to the "squirrely" front steering issue.... what I have found is that whenever I have steering issues it is usually more that my bars wobble too widely back and forth as I avoid stones and holes, and this swinging side to side thing gives me a feeling of going out of control. I actually think the tighter steering arc will be very welcome to me.
Thanks for your ideas!

[DebW]

The other benefits of a long-enough stem (or a short-enough top tube) are that you can get more weight over the front wheel when descending, which makes high speed more stable, and you can get your weight further forward when standing on climbs. These things may or may not be important to you, depending on how you climb and how fast you descend.

[jobob]

I use shorter top stems on both of my Rivendells, the 70 mm stem instead the 100 mm. Made a world of difference for me, too.

I didn't notice any difference in handling going from the 100 mm top stem to the 70 mm.

And I'm told by those in the know that I descend pretty quickly....

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Cool!
I feel so beautifully balanced on my bike now. Yeah, I could play the piano now...or the banjo even! while riding. Before, I couldn't even ride in the drops at ALL because of feeling like I was going to fall forward all the time. Now...easy and comfortable to tuck right down into the drops.
Seriously, I feel I can MOVE around into any position now, instead of feeling like I was trying to do a handstand....I can now balance my weight beautifully over my legs and solar plexis. What a great feeling. Amazing what a difference a 3cm change will make.

[esther231]

Happy for you, Lisa.

I'm like that too. I like to move about on my bike and want all three positions to be easy to get to and feel comfortable in them.

Congrats. Enjoy.

[Kano]

The other benefits of a long-enough stem (or a short-enough top tube) are that you can get more weight over the front wheel when descending, which makes high speed more stable, and you can get your weight further forward when standing on climbs. These things may or may not be important to you, depending on how you climb and how fast you descend.

So, Deb, in a sense, what you're saying is that it's no wonder we who ride upright hybrid/comfort bikes may be a bit spooked on downhill runs? The design of the bike makes it inherently a bit less stable and so we have more shimmies and wobbles? This would be why we like our brake levers a lot while on descents?

(and things I've read lately on climbing lead me to think it wouldn't hurt to find someone to give me climbing lessons!)

Karen in Boise

[Rebeccah]

Thanks Emily!
I read the article:
"Correct stem length for your bike by Trevor Williams
To get an approximate length for your stem, first ensure that your saddle height and position (front to back) are correct. Now place your elbow against the front of the saddle with your hand outstretched, the center of your handle bars should be approximately 3cm (two finger widths) beyond the finger-tips of your outstretched hand."

Alright, well that explains my 25-year-old problem with my bike, then. It's always felt like I was falling over reaching for the handlebars, and I've always been actually *more* comfortable on the drops, which curve back closer to the saddle than the top part of the bars. It's like 3-4" from the tips of my fingers to the center of the top of the handlebars.

Looks like next week I'm shopping for a new stem.

Rebeccah

[emily_in_nc]

Alright, well that explains my 25-year-old problem with my bike, then. It's always felt like I was falling over reaching for the handlebars, and I've always been actually *more* comfortable on the drops, which curve back closer to the saddle than the top part of the bars. It's like 3-4" from the tips of my fingers to the center of the top of the handlebars.

Looks like next week I'm shopping for a new stem.

Just don't miss this quote from the article:
"Realize that if you have to buy a really long or really short stem, your frame probably doesn't fit you well."

The author doesn't define what he means by "really long" or "really short", but I'd tend to wager than anything < 7 cm would be considered "really short" (compared to most bikes, which have stems in the 9-11 cm range or so) and > 12 cm is "really long". I know Lisa is happy with her bike with only a 5 cm stem, and that's great, but not everyone would be happy with the handling of their bike with a stem that short, since all bikes handle very differently.

My Terry with a 6.5 cm stem had twitchy front end handling to the point that I really couldn't climb out of the saddle at all. I blamed it on myself, while now I know it was a combination of the short stem, narrow handle bars (38 cm measured outside-to-outside) and small front wheel (24"). I also realize now that I could have probably used a 9 cm stem on that bike as my fingertips actually touched the bar when doing the saddle/elbow test mentioned in the article, and my bars were well behind my front hub on that bike when I was riding.

To explain that, another way to see if your bars are in the right place and stem is the right length is to look down at your front hub while riding on the brake hoods in a comfy position (this works for drop bars only). If the hub is obscured by the top of the bar, that is supposed to be ideal, but if the bars are behind the hub, your stem is on the short side and handling may be sacrificed, as it was with my Terry. If your bars are way in front of the hub, your stem is long and you may need a larger frame size. Similarly, if the bars are behind the hub, your stem is short, but you're in a comfortable position, you might actually be in one size too large a frame. Not that you can't be comfortable on either, but it's not "ideal" per what a professional bike fitter would recommend.

My Bike Friday also has narrow handlebars and a short stem (7 cm) because they didn't make the top tube quite as short as I wanted (I was hoping for a 9-10 cm stem), but the bars perfectly obscure the hub when I ride, and the handling is actually better than my Terry, even with a 20" front wheel! And on my Aegis, which I built up after my Terry, I ended up with a 9 cm stem, obscured hub, and I could climb out of the saddle on the very first ride -- something I'd really struggled with on the Terry!

So that's one more place that handling can be sacrificed with a too-short stem: out of saddle climbing. If you don't ever climb this way, then it's not a big deal, but I wanted to be able to do it.

Just more food for thought. I have had quite a few bikes, many too big for me or just not right for one reason or another, so have become pretty picky about sizing, the more I've learned. Now, all my bikes fit me very well (2 road, 2 mountain).

Emily