Hi, and dogs???

[liberty]

Hi, everyone. Wanted to introduce myself and say how much I have enjoyed reading the threads and advice/encouragement...

I do have a question. Have you found anything that works as far as deterring dogs? My main route has at least 5 aggressive dogs. Mind you I love dogs, but dogs and bikes don't mix. The roads by my house are hilly, winding, and narrow so if the dog(s) comes at me there is no place I can go to get away... Been having this discussion with my bike shop and they have been trying to get "Halt" for me. Unfortunately they don't have any dog-tazer guns... One guy advised me to fill a water bottle up with a water-tobasco sauce mix. That has been okay, but I hate the thought of giving up an entire water bottle because of the animals... The theory of getting off the bike if a dog tries to chase you is fine, but a couple places have more than one dog and I don't want to deal with the pack mentality. Yeah, can talk to the owners, call the animal control, etc.

Worst part is I had a wreck with two dogs about three weeks ago. Two of my normal dog-harrassers chased me (I didn't bring the tobasco that day, so I was trying to get them with water) down a little hill and around a corner before they stopped dead in front of me. I didn't have time to stop, even though I wasn't even going fast! Don't know how I landed, as my shoulders and elbow were all beat up and my helmet cracked; my legs only got bruises. Nothing broken, but it hasn't been until this week that I've been able to put any weight on my one arm. Everything is still sore to the touch. My bike fared better than I did. She is still at the bike shop because I haven't been able to move well enough to go pick her up. Gonna pick her up this week! I miss seeing her in my house...

Tomorrow is my second biking attempt to see if I can get moving again. A week ago I could only handle a few miles on the old hybrid before my shoulder gave up. I am trying to emotionally psyche myself up to going back out and biking again on my regular routes, but it has really done a number on my enthusiasm and desire to ride. Any hints? Advice? Ways to mount a crowbar on a road bike?

[Artisan]

Hello Liberty, welcome to TE. Having had a bad run in with a dog and ending up in the ER, I can totally relate to your situation. Beyond the fear I had to deal with each time I came upon a dog after the crash, I also had to deal with the anger I felt towards the owners for letting the dog roam freely and for the time it took for me to recover.
I thought the tobasco sauce water was interesting, I have not heard of that before. I would just hate to take a drink from the wrong water bottle on the ride.
I carry pepper spray with me but I've not had to use it yet, not sure I would use it unless I thought there were no other alternative. I've looked for bullhorns but I've not found one that is small enough to carry on the bike.
For each dog I come across now, I handle the situation differently. If they are little I can usually outsprint them. I came across to big dogs the other day and I just stopped, they didn't have anything to chase so they went on their merry way. If it's on a route I usually do and it's a consistant dog, I've talk to the owners and ask that they restrain their dog for their sake and mine.

[salsabike]

I've been told by many cyclists that the most effective thing to do is stop if you can't outsprint it, look at the dog, and shout "GO HOME!!" I actually did do that not long ago to a dog who was chasing a boy on a bike, and he stopped chasing the kid, looked totally abashed, and started sniffing the grass. In other words, it seemed to work.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I tried the same thing the other day with a big golden retriever who came out onto the road towards me barking angrily. I stopped and used my most deep loud voice and shouted "No! GO HOME!!!" and pointed away. He stopped right away, hung his head in shame and ran off home. I was amazed. This may not work with german shepards or dobermans, but I think it has a good chance with goldens and labs, etc.
I keep pepper spray at hand's reach on my frame with a bungee.
If i was ganged up on by nasty dogs like you describe, I would stop my bike and spray them. They would probably never chase my bike again. If their owners won't teach them I guess somebody else has to. You could be seriously hurt.

[rheidis73]

Hi there...Welcome to our little world here at TE...I have to deal with a lot of dogs where I live also and I have found that just yelling at them is the best thing. That is so far....I do carry pepper spray and keep that in my back packet in my jersey. I hate the idea of using my water up over a dog also. I am a big water drinker and there are too few places to stop a refuel.

I would be scared if I crashed over a dog. I am sur you are having to build your confindence back up again.

[CyclChyk]

I was at a bike shop last night and they had a type of spray specifically to deter dogs. Luckily I have never had this problem so I really didn't look at it to closely. Anybody else familar with this? Is it something that works??

[Dogmama]

I stopped and used my most deep loud voice and shouted "No! GO HOME!!!" and pointed away. He stopped right away, hung his head in shame and ran off home. I was amazed. This may not work with german shepards or dobermans, but I think it has a good chance with goldens and labs, etc.

It will work with Dobes, Shepherds, etc. I would not point anywhere because an adrenalized dog might think he is being threatened by your arm and attack.

Re: pepper spray, mace, etc. My experience is that if the dog is really "open for business" they don't work. The dog will think that the strange-thing-with-the-big-head-on-the-bike attacked him and it could enrage him further. The best you could hope for is a momentary pause that allows you to sprint away. A German Shepherd can run 30 mph, though, so you better be a darn good sprinter!

Liberty, I would offer up two suggestions:

1. Find another route if possible.

2. Contact animal control and your local police. These owners need to get their dogs under control. Did you happen to get pictures of your accident? Any witnesses? A letter from a lawyer can be a good deterrent too.

I'm sorry this happened to you. It makes all dog owners look bad.

[xeney]

You know, the situation you describe is so awful that I don't think I would ride that route. I would definitely not rely on pepper spray or tabasco water or a deep commanding voice for protection. Those things will work on a dog that is just being unruly, but it sounds like you are dealing with dogs that are very dangerously aggressive.

I don't know how it works in your area, but our Animal Control is nearly useless. They are severely understaffed -- they share a department with parking enforcement! -- and officers are only available for about four hours a day, and they don't even take calls outside of that time. We had a pack of near-feral, very aggressive dogs roaming our neighborhood and killing cats and menacing people for over a year, and Animal Control never responded to calls.

Then one time that pack of dogs menaced me and my lab when we were out for a walk, and I went home and filed a police report. I told the police that Animal Control had failed to do anything about the problem, and I gave the address of the "owner" of the dogs. And those dogs were gone within a couple of weeks.

I would call the police and report those owners. If the police do not want to take the report, then you need to get very aggressive with Animal Control, because dogs who behave that way are very dangerous dogs and they are going to kill someone. It will probably not be you, it will probably be a child, and the authorities need to do something about it.

[BikeMomma]

I love dogs, but when it comes to dealing with them on the road, it angers me to no end that their owners don't bother to take responsibilty for their containment. Makes me want to strangle first the dogs, then the owners!

Anyway, before using pepper spray or water, what I've found is that simply yelling/saying "NO!" in a firm owner-like voice will either make them hesitate enough to enable me to get away or in best-case, has actually stopped them in their tracks. You figure most dogs are at least trained to know what "no" means. However, bear in mind that this doesn't always work (some dogs are reeeeally dense).

Outside of that, my next defense would be the water, but you've already said you'd rather not use it. I do have pepper spray, but I rarely bring it on my rides because I'm not confident that I'd be able to point it in the right direction in a hurried situation. I can just see myself spraying ME instead of the dog!

What Dogmama said about the Animal Control is right on. Drive by, get the address, and report them. A threat of legal action is never a good thing. Do that now, don't wait. Remember, it's probably not just you who is having problems. I'm a constant procrastinator -- I and others that I ride with kept put off calling about this stupid black lab that used to come at us on our group rides and on my solo ones. Well, it wasn't long before it actually did make someone crash (he was ok).

Since you would already have their address, send them a postcard, let them know that you have a right to ride on public roads and their dog is a problem (sign it anonymously). Be as nice or as terse as you feel you need to be, but if they know someone has singled them out, they might bother to install measures to contain the dog to their yard.

Good luck & be safe!
~BikeMomma

[SandyLS]

Hubby has resorted to Halt, a pepper spray designed especially as a dog deterent, several times. The results have always been effective. The most amazing thing is not that the dogs stop dead in their tracks and then head off in another direction, but on future rides past the same dogs they seem to have lost all interest in chasing us. We carry it in a holster on our handle bars. I don't know if it is helpful in all cases, but so far it has worked for us even with some pretty large and agressive acting dogs. Our local bike shop won't carry the product. His wife thinks that it is cruel. As a dog lover and owner of two (fenced yard) I tend to think that the injuries to a dog that runs out into the road would be even worse.

[rheidis73]

Hubby has resorted to Halt, a pepper spray designed especially as a dog deterent, several times. The results have always been effective. The most amazing thing is not that the dogs stop dead in their tracks and then head off in another direction, but on future rides past the same dogs they seem to have lost all interest in chasing us. We carry it in a holster on our handle bars. I don't know if it is helpful in all cases, but so far it has worked for us even with some pretty large and agressive acting dogs. Our local bike shop won't carry the product. His wife thinks that it is cruel. As a dog lover and owner of two (fenced yard) I tend to think that the injuries to a dog that runs out into the road would be even worse.

I agree with you Sandy about the pepper spray. I have worked for animal control and we do carry pepper spray and will use it if need be. I did ask my boss (veterinarian) if pepper spray would cause damage to the eyes and he said no. If you think about it, if pepper spray can stop a 200 pound man, it sure would have a good effect on a 70 pound dog. I would much rather be cruel and spray the dog (if it needed to be done) then have the thing knock me off my bike and then start chewing on me.

I also would carry pepper spray that would be used against grizzly bears in the mountians when I would go hiking. I have heard of people that have used spray on the bears and has worked to be able to get away.

I am a complete animal lover myself and am big against abuse...but if it is going to save a wreck for me or the dog, I would much rather use it. Dogs are smart, it would take only one time and the next time, I could see them running the other way...Just my opinion

[madisongrrl]

I agree with you Sandy about the pepper spray. I have worked for animal control and we do carry pepper spray and will use it if need be. I did ask my boss (veterinarian) if pepper spray would cause damage to the eyes and he said no. If you think about it, if pepper spray can stop a 200 pound man, it sure would have a good effect on a 70 pound dog. I would much rather be cruel and spray the dog (if it needed to be done) then have the thing knock me off my bike and then start chewing on me.

The animal behaviorists that I know have told me that it has been their experience that pepper spray will indeed make a truly aggressive dog MORE aggressive. They have recommended direct stop citronella spray.

[annie]

Dogs scare me while on the bike. Always have, always will. But it won't stop me from riding. I used to carry Halt........... used it a couple of times with little result. Tried plain water spraying. Tried yelling "No!" Nothing seemed very effective. I now call out, firmly, "STAY -- STAY......." and that seems to work the best. Why? I don't know, maybe it's a command that the dog is accustomed to hearing. I also try to keep myself in a calm, unafraid state. _Most_ of the time it works. When it doesn't, I end up screaming and cursing, at dog and owners, and sprinting my life out to get away. I don't know that there is any one solution. I suspect not. I will definitely avoid certain routes if I know there is an agressive dog. Dogs have been a problem for cyclists since they've both co-existed, it seems. I wish there a good answer for the problem.

annie

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

My take is that if a dog is really trying to bite you it will bite you whether you are speeding away or stopped.
I think it might be good to stop and get OFF one's bike and stand with the bike between you and the dog and command "No! Go Home!" and/or get out your spray at the same time. Most dogs want to CHASE you, that's what excites them. I don't think most of us can outspeed a full-tilt running dog- I sure can't! Take away their ability to chase you and perhaps they will change their mind. I don't think they expect one to stop and become a "normal" disapproving human on two legs.

[emily_in_nc]

Hi liberty!

If you search this forum you'll find a zillion posts about dealing with dogs, some of them mine. I fractured my pelvis in three places in April 2005 after a close encounter with two dogs. It sounds like you need medical attention for your shoulder and probably some physical therapy, and it is certainly possible to get reimbursed for your medical bills and any bike-related repairs, etc. you need due to your crash, at least if there is a leash law in your county or city. I filed a claim with the dog owner's homeowner's insurance and got all my out-of-pocket expenses paid, but that was many months after my accident, after all medical care and PT was complete. Save all receipts and document everything in case you do decide to try to get some compensation for your accident and any expenses resulting from it. Chances are you'll be just fine, but it's hard to predict whether you might end up with chronic shoulder problems.

It took me a long time to work up my courage to ride again. I have carried HALT (available at www.nashbar.com, by the way) for years, but couldn't get to it in time when I had my accident as the dogs came out of nowhere so fast. I have added an Air Zound air horn to my handlebars (do a search in the forum and you can read more about that too), and I do not hesitate to stop and get off my bike (as I did once last week when a very friendly golden retriever walked right in front of my front tire) if a dog approaches, friendly or otherwise. I have only had to use the air horn a couple of times, but it works! It is very loud. Halt works great if the dog gets close enough to be sprayed, but they often don't, or if there are more than one, it's very hard to fire at both! I have found that often just holding up the container and pointing it at them is enough to stop them from coming at me, though; they seem to have instincts about "guns" or things like them. Nashbar also makes a little $2 handlebar mount for Halt that I have on my handlebars so it's easy to access. Yes, my bike is a lot geekier these days, but I feel safer!

I am still nervous about dogs, and there are some routes I simply won't take because known mean, loose dogs are sometimes there, but I finally decided I couldn't give up cycling over it. All the suggestions given here are good, but as many people say, there is no one way of handling dogs -- every situation is different.

Good luck, and I hope you'll go to your doctor to take a look at your shoulder. I am very sorry that happened to you, and I truly know what you are going through!

Emily