Dogs

[spazzdog]

Public apology!!

I didn't mean flaming - flaming. I had a momentary lapse of cyber-speak there. And I certainly didn't find anything anyone said hostile.

Read this as shaking hands.

Now no giggling. As once again I have managed to step in the old cyber doggie doo, I need to retire to the curb and get it off my sneaker.


Limping off, with that squishy noise.....

[pedalfaster]

I was surprised to see the dog thread pop up again too.

You can read my dog-encounter story here

I should mention that I am a huge dog-lover and a Cattle Dog owner as well.

I don't really care about the intent of the dog who took me down; I only know that my bike and my body were damaged.

So far the owner is looking at a tab of at least $600 US. More if he or his insurance company fight the bill and we go to court.

Getting off (so far) only paying for damaged tires is lucky .

If your dog takes down and damages a full XTR rig, you could easily be looking at a bill of thousands of dollars. If your dog should ever injure a rider (even just "playing") your tab could skyrocket to five or six figures. Your premiums will go through the roof....

Wouldn't you really rather save the cash for bike chi-chi's???

Not flaming, just being practical as usual

[caligurl]

i'm actually glad that this thread came back to the top.. because we seem to have a terrible time with dogs in my city and calling animal control seems to do no good.

first.. i have to agree with the others, spazz... i can't believe you've let your dog chomp on tires more than once i'm still a new rider with new rider bike handling skills.. i'm sorry.. but if you were in my town and your dog bit my bike.. i would call animal control on you no matter how nice you were! that's just downright dangerous and unless a dog is in a fenced secured area or in a house or in a dog park.. i'm a firm believer that they have no business being off leash..

as for deterring chasing dogs.. i'm going to remember the NO GO HOME! i do carry dog mace but am reluctant to use it (i am a dog mommie after all... and don't really want to hurt another dog)... but like someone said.. if someone breaks the rules.. then the dog is getting sprayed!

i had a new dog experience sunday... we actually had many dogs want to run with us... hubby would say "come on" and "race" with them.. however on the way back.. all the sudden at one house.. FIVE dogs! HOLY POOP! this is after 30 miles (the longest i have ever gone so far.. so i'm tired! it was a slight upgrade... hubby said to me "GO" and i took off... didn't know i had it in me... fortunately the dogs did stop at thier property line (i didn't know it) and hubby was yelling to me to stop (didn't hear/understand him.. just kept peddling for my life screaming "are they still coming"... looking back it's comical.. cuz like i said.. didn't know i had it in me!

now hubby jokes and tells me to push myself by looking for those 5 dogs...

[jobob]

Spazzdog,

I had to wait a day before I responded to this thread. I am still deeply upset by what you say you allow your dog to do.

I have never endangered another cyclist. If he is out of reach I give a very loud warning to the cyclist, which has always been met with understanding and gratitude.

What do you do, yell out "Uh, look out, my dog might take a chomp out of your tire... d'oh, terribly sorry 'bout that ....!!!" ?

I wholeheartedly disagree with your assessment that you "have never endangered another cyclist".

On the contrary, you have absolutely and without a doubt endangered other cyclists by your inability to control your dog and your unwillingness to restrain it appropriately under situations in which you are fully aware you cannot control it.

I laid awake last night imagining the terror I would experience if a dog chased me down and attacked me on my bicycle.

The fact that you are a cyclist makes your actions even more unfathomable and, in my mind, inexcusable.

If you do continue to disregard the safety and well-being of others by putting your dog in situations in which you cannot control it, you should probably have a good lawyer lined up for the inevitable day in which your actions cause serious injury and/or significant property damage.

I have zero tollerance for negligent dog owners. Google the name Diane Whipple.

- Joanne

[Trek420]

In the helpfull, kind , supportive, non-flaming tone of this board as a dog owner (pitbull mix) and a cyclist, I second AG's leash/training advice.

I think the operative quote is this:

------------------------------------------------------------------------


he actually grabs the back tire (while its moving) and chomps it. Then his job is done and he says hi to the rider.


------------------------------------------------------------------------

"his job"....every dog has a job, your dog thinks "his job" is herding tires. He does his job then is rewarded, gets to say "hi" to the "herd". You wouldn't work for free, right? You work, get a reward (pay), your dog is being rewarded for doing the thing you DON'T want him to do.

He needs another job ;-)

He needs to be payed for that job. Dogs are "learning machines"

His job could be a promotion to "sitting as the bike goes by or doing a "watch me"". Professional herding dogs have that behavior, sitting or lying low so as not to spook the herd. Your dog can learn it too. The closer he gets to that behavior he gets a reward from you (treat, attention, toy). What your dog will work for? You could enlist the help of another rider to ride by and if he sits THEN the rider stops for a pet, no sit? Just rides by.

When I adopted my dog from the pound she barely had two tricks (sit, shake) but was not leash trained or socialized. Walking? forget about it, she'd pull your arm out of its sockets, she could not see another dog or she'd go nuts-uncontrolable, likewise bikes.

I knew that if she became a menace in the neighborhood, bit another dog or cyclist I'd have to put her down or keep her totaly fenced/locked. If she could not be walked by others then I can't get away, no one would be willing to watch her.

So I took her to an obedience class and worked with her myself every day. She now walks well on her loose leash, heels, on the "wrong side" but hey, at least she heels.

She may never be able to go into a dog park, she is part pitt and though she looks like a lab she has that "genetic whisper". But now when she sees other dogs she barks "I want to play" not "I'm scared of you and want to eat you alive".

We go to the dog park but we walk outside. But she loves this and we could never have done it before.

She's fine with bikes too. On the bike part I trained her while riding my cycleops in the off season! I'd ride and tuck yummy treats in my pocket, as she did her tricks I'd reward her verbaly ("yes, good dog" etc) then do a "find it" (toss the treat, she goes to find).

Deliberately I did not want to reward her for approaching a bike or getting near the wheels but she now associates bikes with training/treat times and is calm when they ride by like if a kid is riding on the sidewalk where we walk.

She's not perfect but she's come such a long way, like a different dog.

You have a wonderful and smart dog, your dog can learn! and it's such a bonding experience to train your dog....

well gotta go walk Mae....hope this helps

oh, just another quick note before I go, I was previewing this note and saw my footnote, the LA quote.

Don't you give up on this dog. When I started taking Mae to the dog park I had so much support from "dog people" they saw how much trouble Mae had being around other dogs and constantly complimented us for trying. They all said "thank you for not giving up on your dog" when she had good days (not reacting to other dogs) they noticed, when she had bad days (went nuts) they kept encouraging us. Your dog can learn, your dog depends on you, don't give up on him.

[kimba]

I'm sorry- I have to get in here too-
I had a dog that was part border collie- herding was in her genes too. I worked at a drive in theatre, she had run of the property during the day. But she started to chase the cars coming onto the field.
I had to nip that behaviour in the bud right away- for her own safety. And you do too- you cannot take a chance that your dog,while not leashed - would, however innocentl you think it is- harm another cyclist or itself.

I have seen what happens when people walk their dogs down a busy thoroughfare while not leashed- in one case the dog ran after something out of the blue and was killed by a car,in front of the family, including the kids. Why? He'd never done that before- but he was not under control- and I'm sorry but the owners were responsible. I've almost killed dogs who were off leash and the animal just jumped out of the car, and into the road. And the owner gives me attitude!

My border collie cross saw a deer and jumped out of the car window to chase it - took us all by surprise- fortunately she had a harness and a leash on, and hung outside the window unhurt until I brought the car to an almost immediate stop.

But it just goes to show you, even the most obedient dogs- and she had been through full obediance training -can surprise you.
You are in denial, that it is a "cute thing" that your dog does. A cute trick...It isn't- it is potentially dangerous for both your dog and unsuspecting cyclists.

Don't get me wrong- I love dogs, have owned them all my life, and had some pretty spectacular and emotionally important animals. But I never trusted them- they still have pack instincts.

If your animal cannot be trusted around cyclists then it is YOUR responsiblilty to ensure that it are leashed while outside AT ALL TIMES.Otherwise you will find yourself on the other end of a decidely uncute lawsuit, and possible charges...and your dog may even lose it's life.

I'm sorry to be so blunt- but when you tell a story like this as if it is acceptable, and even amusing - then you are fooling yourself, and allowing your dog to maintain this behaviour, even though you say you are "working" on it. By laughing about it you are condoning it- bottom line.
Controlling your dog is the only way to stop it.
And that means keeping it on a leash, and obedience training.

Sorry.

Kimba

[KkAllez]

Per mace/pepper spray: I'd think the risk of having that stuff blow back on you is too great to consider using it so it is really out of the question for me.

When I panicked and hit the car, which thank God stopped as she saw what was happening, it was ten years ago. I learned a highly valuable lesson: Kim is a 'take flight' rider so she better make sure she LOOKS before she flees in the direction of which she flees to.

I didn't realize this was an old post, however, a very interesting and valuable one. Ben and I tend to pick routes that avoid dogs if all possible. Right now our big worry is ratttlesnakes as they give birth here in Texas in August and you simply can't see the little critters until you are right up on and over one. Thus far I've not run over one, but probably would swerve into an eighteen wheeler preferring that over a snake any day. (Just kidding gals! I really have gotten control of my panic button in the past ten years. After all, this ol gal is nearly 40 ya know! Age and wisdom!)

[caligurl]

Originally posted by Kim
Per mace/pepper spray: I'd think the risk of having that stuff blow back on you is too great to consider using it so it is really out of the question for me.

i carry it... but do realize that if the time ever comes that i may have to use it.. it may end up on me...

it never fails that i encounter the most dogs on windy days when i wouldn't/couldn't consider using the mace anyways

ultimately i guess if he/she were that close (or chomping on my and i still had my wits.. which is doubtful) i guess i'd give him a squirt!

[spazzdog]

First off - I appreciate and understand everyones feedback regarding my dog and his earlier tire obsession. As I said in an earlier post... I didn't feel uncomfortable with the concerns posted afterward. I wanted to clear up one other thing - i.e. the 'style' the story was written.

I tend to be lighthearted in my storytelling... I know that, with the absence of face-to-face obsevation, it may appear that I don't 'get' the seriousness of the issue - for that I apologize to the group. I do get it... I am a dog lover and a great believer in a well behaved pet. I also realize the dangers, both to cyclist and pet, regarding possible accidents. For those of you who may have been offended or thought I was simply a nutcase with a bad dog... again, apologies.

Now, as to mace/pepper spray deterants; I noticed for some there was a hesitation (in thought) to use them for fear of hurting the animal. Might I suggest a deterrant I've found to be useful: citronella spray. I use it on Quidditch as a training aid and it works where no other means has. It was recommended to me by a trainer.

The citronella doesn't hurt the dog physically, but a spray to the face really stops the action... most hate it. It's used in no-bark collars and the like as an alternative to shock collars. Admittedly, pepper spray is probably more of a sure thing since it tends to stop anything.

Just a thought...

I think its good that this thread is open again... it is an informative and supportive means of sharing info regarding what, for some, is a scary facet of cycling. The more folks that share their stories and what worked, the better equipped everyone is.

Respectfully - spazzdog

[jobob]

Thanks spazzdog. Very good advice, I appreciate it.

Where can one find citronella spray, is it known by some tradename ?

Regards, - Jo.

[Trek420]

just a quick note, I favor a positive approach in all things...consider carrying treats if you know a dog is on your route!

You could toss the treat and the dog goes for that. Except that you are rewarding the dog for chasing but it could result in the dog LIKING cyclsits

[caligurl]

Originally posted by Trek420
just a quick note, I favor a positive approach in all things...consider carrying treats if you know a dog is on your route!

You could toss the treat and the dog goes for that. Except that you are rewarding the dog for chasing but it could result in the dog LIKING cyclsits

my mailman does that! always has a box of milkbones in his vehicle! lol!

[spazzdog]

I use the stuff that came with the collar... I just buy a couple extra refill canisters. It's Premier Citronella Refill, found in pet stores and online pet supply under training collars.

The refill canisters are about 6 inches tall and easy to hold (think small bottle of hair spray/product). The only thing is, since it is made to refill the collar dispenser it doesn't have one of those little squirty buttons on top... you know the thing on top of the spray starch that falls off all the time ). So, I went through all the spray cannisters in the house (perfume, spray starch, etc) until I found one that fit... presto-chango a handheld doggie deterrant! There may be other sources for this stuff that come already equipped for 'combat', but this is works for me.

One of the good things about citronella, is that if blowback does occur, and it hits you, the worst thing that will happen is the mosquitos and flies will leave you alone . That is assumng that you have no allergy to citronella.

**Please use all tools in accordance with ones own health needs.

[Deanna]

An even "cleaner" method is just a squirt of plain old water in the face--it will distract a dog enough for a cyclist to make their getaway. You don't need to carry any extra equipment and the only drawback is if you really need that water. I have been fortunate to only be "chased" by fenced dogs, but my husband has used this method a couple of times and it's worked.

[kimba]

vinegar and water works well too-

it gives a little something for them to be concerned about without hurting them...
they don't like the smell, and if it gets in their eyes it'll sting a bit. But a least you don't have to worry about blow back in a wind.

Kimba