OT - moving daughter up a grade - opinions?

[pooks]

I've had some extremely bright kids who did not skip a grade and now are flourishing in HS, with all kinds of advanced classes and activities, college courses, etc.

I think this is important to recognize -- schools today offer so much more than the schools most of us went to.

And as others have pointed out, even if your daughter gets temporary improvement by skipping forward right now, if she's truly gifted she may end up unchallenged later anyway. Combine feeling unchallenged and not fitting in academically AND due to her age, and you may have doublt trouble.

Or there's the other (possibly more likely) possibility. She could end up in gifted classes, younger than others who are just as smart as she is.

I'm not at all sure that just because a four-year-old likes older friends translates to a 14-year-old having 16-year-olds as her peers, and not having any probs.

Only you can make the decision, of course. And you're getting really good feedback from people who have had experience in all directions, and people with different opinions.

This is a great forum, isn't it?

[massbikebabe]

It had been requested that both my kids skip grades and both times I said no.
For it is easy to see them ahead of the game now, what is going to happen on the other end say college?? My little guy would have been a 16 year old freshman!!! My advice is have the teachers and/or teachers aides work with your kid and let them mature right along with the rest of the class. You won't be sorry, I'm not, mine is a college freshman right now and her brother is a high school freshman.


karen

[laughlaugh18]

My brother skipped 5th that same year, but he was much better at making friends (including by hiding how good he was academically -- not even the teachers knew and my folks had to insist that either both of us skipped or neither; . . .

And sometimes even the parents are clueless. When the school system told my parents my older brother was gifted, no big shock. When I tested in 1st grade even higher than my brother, my mom was surprised. I still have the envelope with the test results on which she wrote: "Cathy is very, very bright!!" (notice the exclamation points ) At that age I wasn't hiding it; I just had a more gregarious personality. My mom said she knew I was bright, just not that bright . . .

I did alot of skipping and was another 13 year old high school student and 16 year old college freshman. Outwardly I handled it well (much praise for how mature I was), but looking back I realize I hid myself from alot of social stuff cuz I just wasn't ready for it. Skipping may be fine in the lower grades, but I've come to believe that it's really important developmentally to be the same age as your peer group when you're a teenager and college student.

[pooks]

Outwardly I handled it well (much praise for how mature I was), but looking back I realize I hid myself from alot of social stuff cuz I just wasn't ready for it.

My niece, the "life of the party," took a Myers-Briggs test and showed to be an introvert. We all said there had to be a mistake, but she said, "You see how I act. This shows how I feel."

Even her own mother was stunned. So much as we'd like to think different, moms don't always know their kids as well as they think they do.

As a 14-year-old sophomore, I recall taking some antibiotics with my lunch. (Before such things had to be taken through the clinic.) A senior guy sitting at our table asked what I was taking and I joked, "Birth control pills," and laughed because in my world/experience, no high school girl would be taking the PILL, for God's sake. Clearly anybody would know that was a joke.

I didn't realize that one of my closest friends (sitting at the table with me, and a couple of years older than me, though only one grade ahead) was sexually active.

I also didn't realize that the guy believed me until a few months later when he stopped me in the hall and asked if I was still on the pill, and I didn't even remember what he was talking about or why he would ask such a stupid question until a few hours later.

And I also didn't realize until the next year that I had a "reputation" in some circles, even though people who really knew me, knew better.

Hello, high school!

[winddance]

You know, it almost makes me feel better to know that I wasn't the only one who had these issues. Looking back on the experience, I really don't think I would've noticed had I been 17 and everyone else 18, because that age difference could be measured in months. Two years was a lot, though.

When you're a young adult you begin to pass milestones (learner's permit, drivers license, first job, 18th birthday, legal drinking age) and you're two years behind your peers...that creates a lot of social tension. I always needed a ride, because I didn't have my license. I would be invited out while in college, and would have to explain that I wouldn't turn 21 until after I had graduated.

If anything made me feel out of place, this was it.

[mimitabby]

The Ex skipped three grades, making him a just-turned 15-year-old in college. I don't know what he would be like had he stayed the regular course, but I could see personality traits that made me wonder...

He always seemed to have a chip on his shoulder. He was tall and good looking, yet he seemed to have a Napoleonic Complex.

He was completely unable to make small talk and never knew how to relax and "go with the flow."

He had difficulty making friends. When he met new people, he didn't see them as potential friends, but as potential rivals.

He was successful, but never successful enough. To him, being extremely successful + unhappy was better than being moderately successful + happy.

He had difficulty seeing women as human beings. He never answered my question when I asked him when he had his first date. That said, he had the requisite trophy wife/model when he made his first million.

He was the smartest person I had ever met. But I couldn't help but see a very sad and lonely child. I probably understood him better than anyone had in his life, but he was ultimately too messed up to have a stable relationship.

Hey Bluetree,
was your ex an only child too?

[Kitsune06]

This is majorly OT, but thought I'd post it here to get a wide point of view from TE...

As some of you know - I'm switching jobs and moving to Louisiana. My daughter (FishJr) is currently in 4K. She is having fun, but is bored and dissappointed because she says she isn't learning anything. She is doing math (addition and some subtraction), can write all of her letters, her name, and numerous other words, etc. She's mature for her age (emotionally and intellectually) and her teacher suggested that we put her in Kindergarten when we move.

I have no real education on the matter but my own experience, but because both my sister and I were reading/writing when we went into Kindergarten (no Pre-K yet where we were) we were both really bored, and out of that boredom and the awkwardness of being so advanced for our ages, other things developed. I got anxiety disorder and had panic attacks when I wasn't getting some kind of challenge (it lessened when I had advanced classes on the side, medication, etc, and stopped much later in school) and my sister developed an anxiety problem probably more due to the kids in her class singling her out for getting the best grades and always knowing the answers... Both of us would've done well to have been advanced a grade or two especially early on, because it would've kept up with our learning abilties. We were kept where we were because we weren't 'socally skilled' enough to be advanced, which was unfair (I think) because the only people we identified with on an intellectual level were adults.

I would say that the jump from pre-k to K would be just fine for her. It's when you start thinking about 16 year olds in college (a friend of mine did that, and though he was quiet and lonely for the first couple of years, he really developed after getting the 'hang' of it. He was a software developer and not very socially gifted, anyway) that you start running into some problems, but every situation is unique.

[tygab]

Hey Bluetree,
was your ex an only child too?

Whoa, I read the earlier note and thought of someone I know. Add the the only comment which this person is.. what, is this a common thing?

[GulfCoastSwim]

I don't see what the problem is with being a young high school or college student. Most of the problems that you are describing as being "young student" problems really just sound like "gifted child" or "type-A" problems, or even just high school in general.

Granted, the age at which the kid skips the grade does make a difference...an elementary school skip is much easier to adapt to (socially) than a middle or high school skip. Likewise, one year is much different from a three-year difference in age.

I went to college right after I turned 17, but I had been ahead a grade since elementary school. I found out that, once you get to college, it doesn't really matter how old you are. It sounds like your child is mature enough to handle school and progress at a normal pace (just a year earlier than her age group). If she wants to do it, I say let her do it. After all, you can always pull her back down a grade if she has trouble keeping up.

[Bluetree]

Hey Bluetree,
was your ex an only child too?

Mimi, Tygab,
My Ex wasn't an only child but might as well have been. His brother/sister were more than 10 years older, plus he was sent away from home to prep schools since he was 12. With what parents/psychologists know about child development these days, I don't think people would do this anymore. Back then they just didn't know any better.

Side note: When some people bemoan the "good ol' days" they always seem to conveniently forget the amount of ignorance (and racism, sexism, homophobia etc) we had to overcome. We still have a long way to go, but Forums like this are so valuable in spreading information and understanding.

[donnambr]

I have to agree with Kitsune. I'm not a parent, but I was one of those kids who was incredibly bored in school, got viciously teased and shunned for knowing all the answers, and could not relate to kids my own age. Nearly all my friends were 2-4 years older than me. My grade school principal did not believe in double promotion and I was in the same Catholic school for 8 years, and thus in the same unpleasant situation with the same classmates for all that time. Learning supplements at home just seemed to widen the gulf. I too developed terrible anxiety and a strong desire not to stand out or be noticed in any way. That took a very long time to get over, and I'm still pretty sensitive to even good-natured teasing. I'm not saying that double promotion works for all kids, but when emotional maturity is happening at the same rate as the intellectual advancement, I think it could work out for the better to just move up a grade.

[eclectic]

Best of luck deciding and now that school has pretty much started everywhere I assume you made the decision. Please let us know what you decided

I think this is one of the hardest choices a parent has to make because it can affect the child for the rest of their life

I too was a 17 year old college freshman, I thought I was very mature and could handle everything, I was unable to go home except for major holidays. I had a blast and luckily I was bright enough to get by more on my writing skills and brains than on my hardwork.

I found everything caught up with me when I graduated college and had to go out to the world of work - I student taught when I was 20 years old - barely older than some of the high school students.

To solve the problem I went back to school for another degree. Matured another year and was ready.

I have now been teaching for 22 years and have seen a lot of students grades
K thru 12 pass through my doors at one time or another. I have NEVER heard a parent say "I wish I had started him/her early but a lot say I wish I had waited"

After watching students behaviour in my classroom (not skill level) I can usually pick out the younger ones and when I check birthdays I am about 98% correct

Good schools have enrichment programs coordinated by specialists in the Gifted and Talented area, also I have seen students move up for certain subject areas such as math and reading but stay with their peers for everything else (just as some move down for some areas)

If a school or teacher is not flexible then I don't know what to advise you - I am fortunate in that I teach in a school system that is rated as one of the best in the nation

[Bluetree]

Research bears out the experiences here: for girls, it is socially much less comfortable & healthy to be the most mature one in the class; for boys, it is more stressful to be late maturing.

I am in agreement with you there, Sue. But I just found this study which contradicts, regarding delaying Kindergarten for summer-born children. Granted, it does not address the gifted child, but it does touch upon the various maturity levels of kids.

...The USC professor was first inspired to research this matter when he faced it as a parent.
“As my first child was about to enter kindergarten, I heard a lot from parents and school officials that children with summer birthdays, especially boys, would benefit from having a ‘year to grow’ before they start school,” Painter said. “This could give them an academic advantage and prevent them from falling behind.
“I decided that I would study this and find out if there were any academic differences in the long term,” he said. “But despite the fact that these children were a year older than their comparison group, they did not do any better.”

Delaying Kindergarten Has No Benefits
09/07/06
There are few advantages for children who wait a year to enter school, according to USC and Texas researchers.
http://www.usc.edu/uscnews/stories/12716.html

[mimitabby]

...The USC professor was first inspired to research this matter when he faced it as a parent.
“As my first child was about to enter kindergarten, I heard a lot from parents and school officials that children with summer birthdays, especially boys, would benefit from having a ‘year to grow’ before they start school,” Painter said. “This could give them an academic advantage and prevent them from falling behind.
“I decided that I would study this and find out if there were any academic differences in the long term,” he said. “But despite the fact that these children were a year older than their comparison group, they did not do any better.”

Delaying Kindergarten Has No Benefits
09/07/06
There are few advantages for children who wait a year to enter school, according to USC and Texas researchers.
http://www.usc.edu/uscnews/stories/12716.html

I read the article, and it's hard to argue with their findings, but gee whiz,
after forcing 2 boys through elementary school, I am totally convinced that there HAS to be a better way. Maybe it's different for girls, but right now
we're drugging a giant percentage of children (mostly boys) just so that they can endure the long long sits. Boys need to jump and run and kick and punch
and yell... In school all they are supposed to do is sit and be quiet. I guess
the drugs help this.
My poor sons had to do it all without the drugs. and they drove their teachers and me crazy.
I think they'd be better off to not go to traditional school before they were 10. they could be in "boot camp" or something like that first.
classes for boys under ten:
treeclimbing 101
bike riding
first aide
orienteering
sign language
building with sticks
karate
no sitting down until they are 10 years old.
ah, i can dream can't i?

[slinkedog]

I got the impression, from reading the article, that this is only talking about kids with summer birthdays... not kids who are still 4 when school starts.

Also, I found this closing comment interesting...

"School districts should consider the impact of redshirting as well, he said.

“While it may be an attractive option to encourage parents to hold off sending their ‘younger’ kids to kindergarten because the younger children are often a little more difficult to teach the more difficult academic concepts to, perhaps we should structure curriculum to be age appropriate.”

That statement tells me that most schools DON'T have their curriculum structured in a way to be age appropriate to the younger kids yet, which, again makes me glad we made the choice we did.

Also, this paragraph stood out for me:

Parents whose child has a summer birthday should just send him or her to kindergarten, Painter said. “If for some reason, they are unsuccessful in kindergarten, they are better off repeating kindergarten than simply having them start a year later and having them waste a year of their productive life.”

I watched in my son's kindergarten class, last year, the kids who were failing in the class and they were very cognizant of the fact that they were behind. I felt sorry for them because they often looked forlorn and confused. I also have an issue with "having them waste a year of their productive life." Not sure what's he's trying to say, but I see playing and being a little kid as a very productive and good thing!!