OT - moving daughter up a grade - opinions?

[tygab]

I went to a gifted HS and the "normal" entry was to skip a grade when coming in (at 8th grade essentially). All my sibs did this (2 older, 1 younger). I did not. Now don't get me wrong, they are all very happy, successful, socially adjusted adults, but where it seemed to make a difference (to my view) was upon entering college. Being so young in college seemed to put some strains on them that I'm not even sure I could articulate - I just could feel it was something harder for them.

In my case, I didn't skip the grade, and I also took a year before college, which I spent in France, attending French HS and living with a family. So I was an 'old' freshman, and I loved having a more mature outlook that had come from both age and having already been away from home on my own in a different country.

So, I lean toward the earlier sentiment that it never seemed a disadvantage to be the older one, but it could hurt to be the youngest one.

[Geonz]

I started school early and dropped out a year early to go to college.

16 **is** young to be in college (tho' really it was the best option for me). In hindsight, I might have done better to do something else to figure out myself and the world, before heading off to college to do academic stuff. And, at one point (eighth grade), we considered having me stay back a year to mature.

Research bears out the experiences here: for girls, it is socially much less comfortable & healthy to be the most mature one in the class; for boys, it is more stressful to be late maturing. (Think abotu what it's like to have a full figure in fourth grade... the comments... etc... I would have were I not younger...)

If you're moving anyway, a lot of issues won't be issues.

[winddance]

I was one of these kids. I started kindergarten at 4, and then later skipped 8th grade. This put me in college at the ripe old age of 16 as well. I still stand by that, even though I am now wishing I'd taken a bit of time to smell the roses before entering college.

I was a royal terror in pre-school, until one day I wandered over to the older-kid table and they realized that I was bored to tears. I was maybe 2.5 or 3 at the time, but this prompted my parents to get me tested to enter kindergarten early when the time came. I was accepted, and went, and I really do not think it made one bit of difference. I definitely think that I enjoyed school more because I was actively engaged and learning.

Skipping 8th grade was a different matter for me. In retrospect, I still would have done it, because academics have always been more important to me than having a social life, but I really felt out of place in high school and I haven't felt quite right since. I really don't know that I noticed the social aspect of school up until middle school, so I wouldn't say that was an issue for me when starting kindergarten early.

[Bluetree]

I started school early and dropped out a year early to go to college.

16 **is** young to be in college (tho' really it was the best option for me). In hindsight, I might have done better to do something else to figure out myself and the world, before heading off to college to do academic stuff. And, at one point (eighth grade), we considered having me stay back a year to mature.

Research bears out the experiences here: for girls, it is socially much less comfortable & healthy to be the most mature one in the class; for boys, it is more stressful to be late maturing. (Think abotu what it's like to have a full figure in fourth grade... the comments... etc... I would have were I not younger...)

The Ex skipped three grades, making him a just-turned 15-year-old in college. I don't know what he would be like had he stayed the regular course, but I could see personality traits that made me wonder...

He always seemed to have a chip on his shoulder. He was tall and good looking, yet he seemed to have a Napoleonic Complex.

He was completely unable to make small talk and never knew how to relax and "go with the flow."

He had difficulty making friends. When he met new people, he didn't see them as potential friends, but as potential rivals.

He was successful, but never successful enough. To him, being extremely successful + unhappy was better than being moderately successful + happy.

He had difficulty seeing women as human beings. He never answered my question when I asked him when he had his first date. That said, he had the requisite trophy wife/model when he made his first million.

He was the smartest person I had ever met. But I couldn't help but see a very sad and lonely child. I probably understood him better than anyone had in his life, but he was ultimately too messed up to have a stable relationship.

[Crankin]

This is a difficult issue. I've been a teacher for 30 years and most of the time we recommend not to move up or down a grade (repeat). It sounds like academically, your daughter should go to K. She also seems to do well socially, so there shouldn't be any issues. I think the issues that come up in these situations are further in the future. I'm a middle school teacher and there IS a difference when you are 10 in 6th grade and everyone else is 11 and 12. I teach in a school that has a progressive and challenging curriculum, so we meet the needs of a wide range of abilities. I've had some extremely bright kids who did not skip a grade and now are flourishing in HS, with all kinds of advanced classes and activities, college courses, etc. The thing is that your peers and social life are probably the most important thing in grades 5-8. This is just a developmental thing. Even the smartest well adjusted kid often tries to "hide" their giftedness, so as not to appear different. This isn't necessarily good, or the thing that should make your decision, but you could have an ugly 2-4 years just because your daughter is less physically developed and has different interests than the majority of her peers. A good school will deal with this, but it might be good to think of this when you are making your decision.

[pooks]

I've had some extremely bright kids who did not skip a grade and now are flourishing in HS, with all kinds of advanced classes and activities, college courses, etc.

I think this is important to recognize -- schools today offer so much more than the schools most of us went to.

And as others have pointed out, even if your daughter gets temporary improvement by skipping forward right now, if she's truly gifted she may end up unchallenged later anyway. Combine feeling unchallenged and not fitting in academically AND due to her age, and you may have doublt trouble.

Or there's the other (possibly more likely) possibility. She could end up in gifted classes, younger than others who are just as smart as she is.

I'm not at all sure that just because a four-year-old likes older friends translates to a 14-year-old having 16-year-olds as her peers, and not having any probs.

Only you can make the decision, of course. And you're getting really good feedback from people who have had experience in all directions, and people with different opinions.

This is a great forum, isn't it?

[mimitabby]

The Ex skipped three grades, making him a just-turned 15-year-old in college. I don't know what he would be like had he stayed the regular course, but I could see personality traits that made me wonder...

He always seemed to have a chip on his shoulder. He was tall and good looking, yet he seemed to have a Napoleonic Complex.

He was completely unable to make small talk and never knew how to relax and "go with the flow."

He had difficulty making friends. When he met new people, he didn't see them as potential friends, but as potential rivals.

He was successful, but never successful enough. To him, being extremely successful + unhappy was better than being moderately successful + happy.

He had difficulty seeing women as human beings. He never answered my question when I asked him when he had his first date. That said, he had the requisite trophy wife/model when he made his first million.

He was the smartest person I had ever met. But I couldn't help but see a very sad and lonely child. I probably understood him better than anyone had in his life, but he was ultimately too messed up to have a stable relationship.

Hey Bluetree,
was your ex an only child too?

[tygab]

Hey Bluetree,
was your ex an only child too?

Whoa, I read the earlier note and thought of someone I know. Add the the only comment which this person is.. what, is this a common thing?

[GulfCoastSwim]

I don't see what the problem is with being a young high school or college student. Most of the problems that you are describing as being "young student" problems really just sound like "gifted child" or "type-A" problems, or even just high school in general.

Granted, the age at which the kid skips the grade does make a difference...an elementary school skip is much easier to adapt to (socially) than a middle or high school skip. Likewise, one year is much different from a three-year difference in age.

I went to college right after I turned 17, but I had been ahead a grade since elementary school. I found out that, once you get to college, it doesn't really matter how old you are. It sounds like your child is mature enough to handle school and progress at a normal pace (just a year earlier than her age group). If she wants to do it, I say let her do it. After all, you can always pull her back down a grade if she has trouble keeping up.

[Bluetree]

Hey Bluetree,
was your ex an only child too?

Mimi, Tygab,
My Ex wasn't an only child but might as well have been. His brother/sister were more than 10 years older, plus he was sent away from home to prep schools since he was 12. With what parents/psychologists know about child development these days, I don't think people would do this anymore. Back then they just didn't know any better.

Side note: When some people bemoan the "good ol' days" they always seem to conveniently forget the amount of ignorance (and racism, sexism, homophobia etc) we had to overcome. We still have a long way to go, but Forums like this are so valuable in spreading information and understanding.

[donnambr]

I have to agree with Kitsune. I'm not a parent, but I was one of those kids who was incredibly bored in school, got viciously teased and shunned for knowing all the answers, and could not relate to kids my own age. Nearly all my friends were 2-4 years older than me. My grade school principal did not believe in double promotion and I was in the same Catholic school for 8 years, and thus in the same unpleasant situation with the same classmates for all that time. Learning supplements at home just seemed to widen the gulf. I too developed terrible anxiety and a strong desire not to stand out or be noticed in any way. That took a very long time to get over, and I'm still pretty sensitive to even good-natured teasing. I'm not saying that double promotion works for all kids, but when emotional maturity is happening at the same rate as the intellectual advancement, I think it could work out for the better to just move up a grade.

[eclectic]

Best of luck deciding and now that school has pretty much started everywhere I assume you made the decision. Please let us know what you decided

I think this is one of the hardest choices a parent has to make because it can affect the child for the rest of their life

I too was a 17 year old college freshman, I thought I was very mature and could handle everything, I was unable to go home except for major holidays. I had a blast and luckily I was bright enough to get by more on my writing skills and brains than on my hardwork.

I found everything caught up with me when I graduated college and had to go out to the world of work - I student taught when I was 20 years old - barely older than some of the high school students.

To solve the problem I went back to school for another degree. Matured another year and was ready.

I have now been teaching for 22 years and have seen a lot of students grades
K thru 12 pass through my doors at one time or another. I have NEVER heard a parent say "I wish I had started him/her early but a lot say I wish I had waited"

After watching students behaviour in my classroom (not skill level) I can usually pick out the younger ones and when I check birthdays I am about 98% correct

Good schools have enrichment programs coordinated by specialists in the Gifted and Talented area, also I have seen students move up for certain subject areas such as math and reading but stay with their peers for everything else (just as some move down for some areas)

If a school or teacher is not flexible then I don't know what to advise you - I am fortunate in that I teach in a school system that is rated as one of the best in the nation