OT - moving daughter up a grade - opinions?

[mimitabby]

I'm not a teacher, I'm a mom. I think the maturity level is the most important
thing. My two sons were very bright, but very immature. My older son was
on the cusp, could have gone to school with the older group, but we decided against it, and it was a good thing. (we could have kept him out of school
until he was 10 and it would have been a good thing) but i digress.
If she's mature, doesn't mind being the littlest, and the teacher is cool with it; it's a great idea. That was my personal experience, (being the youngest
and smallest in my own school experience) and i don't think it hurt me a bit (it was good for my ego, instead!)

mimi

[spokewench]

My sister skipped 5th grade and later when on to college at the age of 16. She loved books, school, learning and is now a professor. It worked for her great!

On the other hand, my 5th grade teacher told my parents that I should skip 5th grade. My parents and my teacher asked me and since I love sports, people, social stuff, etc., I did not want to skip a grade. I did not skip and it worked out for me.

So, I think it really depends on the child, the child's likes and wants, the level of boredom, and WHAT THE CHILD WANTS>

I know she is really young, but ask her!

[pooks]

My birthday is in November and I couldn't start public school until I was six. So my parents sent me to private school for kindergarten and first grade. I was six when I entered 2nd grade in public schools.

My son has an October birthday so the same thing applied. We sent him to preschool and then kindergarten. At the end of kindergarten the teacher and principal met with us to discuss whether or not he should go into first grade or repeat Kindergarten.

He was very intelligent -- the question was never about academics. He'd been somewhat immature earlier in the year and had matured toward the end of the year. They said they really couldn't advise us in one way or the other -- that if his immaturity had kept up they would definitely have advised us to have him repeat, but now we were kind of at an in between place.

But the principal told me something I've never forgotten. She said, "You'll never regret having your son be one of the oldest and most mature in his class. You may regret it if he's one of the youngest and least mature."

That slammed home, and we had him repeat.

We NEVER regretted it, even though we were immediately deluged with phone calls from moms who couldn't believe we were holding him back, because he was so far ahead of their own kids who were going into first grade. They kept telling us we shouldn't do it. But we did, and were glad.

Looking back on things, I think it's highly likely I would have done better if I'd waited to start school instead of going early. I know of ways my own maturity (or lack of it) put me in some situations that I wouldn't have gotten in with a year's more experience under my belt.

If it were me, I'd be looking for ways to stimulate my daughter's intellect (in or out of class) without moving her ahead a year. By the time you're a teenager, there are enough challenges out there without adding being younger than your peers to them.

[DrBee]

Thanks for the advice! I knew I'd get a good response from TE, as usual.

We have talked it over with daughter. She keeps telling me that she wants to learn to write more words (we do this in the afternoons) and she's constanstly adding things together. She's halfway through a Kindergarten Math workbook. So, yes, we give her plenty of stimulation at home.

I was always young for my grade and did well. Most of her friends are older than her.

The school will evaluate her to identify whether or not she is gifted. And - yes, of course, we will talk with the teachers.

She'll do fine, regardless. She's already bored and school has only been in session for 3 weeks! This is my concern. She calls it "play class".

[mimitabby]

Well, sounds like the daughter is willing.
I think there's a huge difference between boys and girls.
I don't think you'll regret moving her up, but do heed
what others said here, she will still tend to be bored even if she skips a grade or two and you will have to keep her interests and challenges up at home (she can do bee experiments with you!)

[Bluetree]

She keeps telling me that she wants to learn to write more words (we do this in the afternoons) and she's constanstly adding things together. She's halfway through a Kindergarten Math workbook. So, yes, we give her plenty of stimulation at home.

That's so funny! I used to beg my older brother (by 3 years) to let me do his math homework. He thought it a chore - I thought it was fun. Integers? Negative numbers? A whole new world! I used to do it secretly until Mommy caught on and put a stop to it. My brother got punished for "making" little sis do his homework, probably because she couldn't imagine anyone WANTING to do math of their own free will.

Yeah, I know, what a dork I was. Bro is still bitter. I ended up at math camp.

[Bad JuJu]

That's so funny! I used to beg my older brother (by 3 years) to let me do his math homework. He thought it a chore - I thought it was fun.

LOL, Bluetree. I have a similar childhood story. My twin brother and I had different teachers in our early grades, and his started giving homework before mine did, and I was soooooo envious that he got to do homework and I didn't. What a little nerd I was, too! I bugged my mom about it so much that she started making up little assignments for me to do. Weird kid!

[Duck on Wheels]

... Most of her friends are older than her...

For me that's an important point. I skipped 3rd, but was socially clueless and physically clumsy. Didn't know how to jump in when skipping long rope (which was a big thing in the 4th grade, but not yet in 3rd), couldn't play any of the team games well, was shy, too competitive academically etc. etc. So I wound up being more or less friendless until college. My brother skipped 5th that same year, but he was much better at making friends (including by hiding how good he was academically -- not even the teachers knew and my folks had to insist that either both of us skipped or neither; he's now a philosophy professor). But if FishJr is good at making friends, including with kids older than herself, I'd say go for it. Especially at this stage, i.e. pre-school and in connection with a move. Being openly bored by school might be understood by other kids as being show-offish (I now know I was seen that way in grades 1 and 2, though in Kindergarden the kids valued that I could read books to them in free play time), in which case she might fit in better by starting off with kids who are reading etc. more or less at her level.

[DirtDiva]

An interesting discussion for a primary teacher to wade into!

Skipping and repeating years doesn't happen that often in NZ, which has a lot to do with how the curriculum and schools are structured. Particularly at smaller schools and particularly at the earlier year levels there are a lot of composite classes (for example, I taught a Year 7/8 class last week and a Year 1/2 class today). It goes without saying, really, that you never ever find that all the most academically able children are the oldest and all the least academically able children are the youngest, you never ever find that all the most physically able children are the oldest and all the least physically able children are the youngest, you never ever find that all the most socially able children are the oldest and all the least socially able children are the youngest, etc., etc., etc. Personally, I really like teaching composite classes (the NZ curriculum is plenty flexible enough to accomodate them).

As for FishJr, I have no expertise in early childhood education, so feel free to take what I say with as large a grain of salt as you wish, but if she's bright enough to consider moving up a year at this stage, she'll always be prone to boredom at school; regardless of your decision, the most important thing is that you investigate what will be provided for gifted and talented students on a day-to-day, in-classroom basis as this will have the greatest impact on her enjoyment of learning in the school environment.

In a way, it's easier to deal with at secondary level. If I child excels at maths and science, they can skip levels in those subjects and remain with their peers in others. My quite strongly held opinion is that at any level, a teacher should be able to provide for the needs of each and every child in their class. Sure, it's difficult when a child has no natural academic peers, but it's yer freakin' job!!!


I think I've babbled on enough for one night...

[laughlaugh18]

My brother skipped 5th that same year, but he was much better at making friends (including by hiding how good he was academically -- not even the teachers knew and my folks had to insist that either both of us skipped or neither; . . .

And sometimes even the parents are clueless. When the school system told my parents my older brother was gifted, no big shock. When I tested in 1st grade even higher than my brother, my mom was surprised. I still have the envelope with the test results on which she wrote: "Cathy is very, very bright!!" (notice the exclamation points ) At that age I wasn't hiding it; I just had a more gregarious personality. My mom said she knew I was bright, just not that bright . . .

I did alot of skipping and was another 13 year old high school student and 16 year old college freshman. Outwardly I handled it well (much praise for how mature I was), but looking back I realize I hid myself from alot of social stuff cuz I just wasn't ready for it. Skipping may be fine in the lower grades, but I've come to believe that it's really important developmentally to be the same age as your peer group when you're a teenager and college student.

[pooks]

Outwardly I handled it well (much praise for how mature I was), but looking back I realize I hid myself from alot of social stuff cuz I just wasn't ready for it.

My niece, the "life of the party," took a Myers-Briggs test and showed to be an introvert. We all said there had to be a mistake, but she said, "You see how I act. This shows how I feel."

Even her own mother was stunned. So much as we'd like to think different, moms don't always know their kids as well as they think they do.

As a 14-year-old sophomore, I recall taking some antibiotics with my lunch. (Before such things had to be taken through the clinic.) A senior guy sitting at our table asked what I was taking and I joked, "Birth control pills," and laughed because in my world/experience, no high school girl would be taking the PILL, for God's sake. Clearly anybody would know that was a joke.

I didn't realize that one of my closest friends (sitting at the table with me, and a couple of years older than me, though only one grade ahead) was sexually active.

I also didn't realize that the guy believed me until a few months later when he stopped me in the hall and asked if I was still on the pill, and I didn't even remember what he was talking about or why he would ask such a stupid question until a few hours later.

And I also didn't realize until the next year that I had a "reputation" in some circles, even though people who really knew me, knew better.

Hello, high school!

[Bikingmomof3]

Would you be moving this school year? If so, what is the policy/position of the school your daughter will be attending?

This is a very personal decision and you will most likely hear people voicing opinions for both sides.

I have taught school and I am a parent. I purposefully held all three of my boys back. They were all very advanced and to this day are. They are in middle school, all in gifted/advanced classes, and extremely well adjusted and secure. It was suggested my oldest skip a grade. I refused. As it stands he is a middle schooler taking HS classes, which will be on his college transcripts (even though he is a bright student, try explaining to a young teen just how important a transcript is). Here they allow certain 7th and 8th graders to take the SAT. My oldest was asked last year and we said no. He has plenty of time to take it when he is older. No harm was done. All three of my children are boys, and yes, boys are indeed different than girls, especially when it comes to maturity. Looking back, I would not change any decsion I made.

With all that said, it is a very personal choice, and not one to be taken lightly.

I do suggest you contact the schoool your daughter will be attending and find out what their policies are, if you have not already done so.

[margo49]

[QUOTE=pooks]But the principal told me something I've never forgotten. She said, "You'll never regret having your son be one of the oldest and most mature in his class. You may regret it if he's one of the youngest and least mature."

That slammed home, and we had him repeat.

We NEVER regretted it,


This was/is exactly my experience also with my elder son (now 19)

My mother would say also that she skipped my brother up a grade in the first or second year and she *always* regretted it till the day he died (and after I guess). He was both young and tiny even for his age. They put him "up" because he was not behaving because he was too smart and he continued not behaving because of his age and size. But it was the 60's in the suburbs and you didn't question the teacher

When I was a kid we were 3 very gifted girls together for 6 years. This was enough smart company . They had a regional group for gifteds at one stage on Saturdays,but basically that was an experiment and we all met up again in the intermediate (junior high) school the following year anyway.
I would periodically (later really menstrually!) tell my parents I was wasting my time with these thicko idiots and their response was " Look, you have to get on with all sorts of people so start learning to get on with them now." Which I think was good in retrospect because I had a good self image untainted by elitism or special treatment. I would also say that being in school is much more than just getting knowledge and grades .

I think that as long as you *can* do what everybody else does you should;because if (when!) the day comes that you can't "They" are more tolerant of your "deviance" than if you have been a "weirdo" all thru. (Voice of experience!)

I would wait and see if there are a few other smart-ies in her new class.

[slinkedog]

We are in the same situation... our daughter is 4 and will be 5 in November. We could send her to K this year, but opted for an academic Jr. K program at a nearby preschool.

I initially (beginning of last school year) had thought she would do fine going to K this year, but after helping in my son's K class, I started to see how the children (especially the girls) interacted with one another and how quickly things got quite competetive. It was a real eye-opener and made us decide that giving our daughter another year of childhood would be a good thing.

I see my teenaged daughter (who is now 15 and a sophomore) having to make tough choices many times, and it makes me even more glad that we are deciding to hold the little one back a year. Knowing that she will have another year of critical thinking and decision-making skills under her belt when she has to face peer-pressure stuff is a good thing, imho.

[salsabike]

I am not a parent but am a school psych. I agree with Mimitabby, Margo and others on this one. The thing is, Fish, that even skipping one grade may not be enough for FishJr. There is a wide range of skills in any one classroom, and she may always outstrip the curriculum and need enrichment. Many teachers love to give that, and you'll always be doing it too. Skipping a year might work great for her--and I'd do it for a girl sooner than for a boy, since it does seem to work better for girls--just know that she may catch up to THAT curriculum too, and after that the enrichment from school and home will still be needed to fill in the gaps.

BTW, Fish, congrats on the job!