Hip angles and max thrust

[KnottedYet]

I'm 5'8" and ride a 54 cm hybrid commuter. But on a road bike (different geometry) I ride 50 or 52.

Can you put your Trek and Clunker side-by-side and compare important points? Seat, cranks, bars... do they match? Use the bottom bracket (axle of the cranks) as your reference point, since you can't move that. Does it look like you could move the seat and bars of the Trek to make it match the clunker?

You have a unique body geometry, and clearly the standard "correct" bike fit isn't working for you. If the clunker's set-up IS working for you, it might make sense to use the clunker as your template.

[mimitabby]

I finally made it to the vvfa(very, very far away)bs to address these fitting issues.

Apparently my seat was too far forward and my handlebars were too low.

Needless to say, the adjustments created new and worse problems. Now my hamstrings and calves are straining to push and pull what I'm sure my quads did a better job of, and even more weight ends up in my hands--AND crotch. If I try to bend my arms at all, the muscle next to the spine in my lower back on the left side hurts so sharp I can't breathe (believe me, I'll tough through any pain. But breathing is necessary). I just feel like I'm braced against this thing. 'Technically' it's supposed to fit.

Question: is the front wheel hub supposed to be blocked from view when holding a) brake hoods, or, b) next to the top of the stem? The guy who fitted me said brake hoods--but with the old clunker bike, it's next to the stem.

Guess which bike DOESN'T hurt me? Clunker 10-speed from the 70s. I can completely give everything I have on that thing (not that it gets me anywhere fast) and I feel light, balanced. I use the handlebars to PULL, I can crouch down as low as I like with a flat painless back. Even after agony on the new bike. But according to newfound fitting logic, old bike is too small for me.

I'm 5'5" with a short torso and the new bike is 54cm. Old bike is 52cm.

New bike is supposed to fit! What is wrong here?

wow! you need to call those idiots and tell them that you feel worse, not better! (let your fingers do the walking!) tell them what you just told us.
I won't pretend to understand what your problem is; but i'll tell you this;
if you paid for the bike, they need to make it right. if you paid for the fit
you need to be able to go back in until you are comfy on that bike!

[run it, ride it]

That's it--I've had it with the new bike. Work today was AGONY after the commute there, and after the commute home I can barely sit up.

My crotch is numb, my hands aching, my back screaming in pain.

I didn't pay for the fit. I ASKED for the fit when I FIRST bought the thing and they said it was fine. I asked for a more intensive fit when I went back and after their tweaking (which they said would make things much better) I'm wondering if this is something like that story where the guy complains about his cat being too loud and the doctor tells him to get more and more animals until the original problem doesn't seem that bad compared to the 'remedy.'

I just plain can't reach the handlebars! I don't care what they tell me about where I should and shouldn't see the wheel hub; if I'm a freak of nature so be it.

I'm not sure what they can do for me at this point. I doubt they'll take back the frame after this much use. If I go back, they'll start talking dubiously about shortening the stem on the handlebars. They already think I'm a nutcase for wanting them closer.

[Triskeliongirl]

I also think from everything you say, that this bike is simply too big for you. I am 5'4" and while I can be fitted to a trek 50 cm guys bike or 51cm wsd bike, the top tubes on those bikes are still too long for me, so I ended up with a 44 cm terry bike to get the appropriately sized top tube I needed (like you I am long in the femur, short in the upper body, which also means I needed a bike with a shallow, i.e. 73 degree seat tube angle). If I were you, I would cut my losses by selling this bike. You will only injure yourself if you continue to ride it, and keep pouring money into trying to make it right but it will never be right. Then, I would learn everything I could about the older frame that fits. What seat tube angle does it has (can you download the specs), top tube length, head tube angle, and search the web to find a bike with specs in the same ballpark. When I couldn't find a bike that fit me, that is what I did, looked at what bikes worked for me in the past, and then looked for new ones that had similar geometries.

[Bikingmomof3]

That just sounds terrible. I am so sorry you are going through all this. I know we are all different sizes, and I fit a Trek 50cm perfectly. My DH who is a heck of a lot taller fits a 56cm. I could not believe it. I thought for certain he would be on a 60cm, since se has a long torso-yet he simply could not reach without discomfort on the 60cm. On a 56cm he is perfect.

My rambling has a point. I am afraid your bike, from all you have said is way too big. Would the bike store (and in my opinion they should) buy your bike back from you and sell you a bike that actually fits you? Seriously, bike riding should not be painful.

[esther231]

Trust your body and not the bike store.

I'd put money down that the bike is too big.

Hope you feel quickly.

[Petra]

I can relate to your problems, and tend to agree that the bike is too large for you. I am 5'7"" and ride a 51 cm frame, which fits perfectly. Another bike shop tried to sell me 56 cm frame.... my hands would never touch the handlebars. Also, I noted that you mention that you thrust your pelvis forward when running, you actually need to do the opposite thing in cycling and your core muscles might not like this at all and need some adapting and you therefore feel you are too far back. One thing you can do is align the front of your kneecap with the center of you pedal axle (drop a weight on a string from the kneecap to the floor and see where it hits your pedals, feet in 3-9 o'clock position). That gives you a good idea about butt-leg orientation on the bike. Certainly does nothing for a too long top tube.... good luck with finding the perfect bike.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I'm 5'5" with a short torso and the new bike is 54cm. Old bike is 52cm.

New bike is supposed to fit! What is wrong here?

Just a few thoughts that come to my mind....

I honestly don't see why a 2cm difference in frame size is going to suddenly mean the difference between total comfort and multiple excrutiating pains for you. I suspect something besides the 2cm frame size difference is at work here causing the pain issues.
Something to do with balance of weight, handlebars, handlebar position, leg/crank angle, seat position, whole body position.....etc. (and what was that "agressive angle" you say the bikeshop guy told you you had your handlebars set at?)
I am not sure that setting your seat all the way forward to get positioned "over" your long femurs is a good theory. Often we can get more whole body balance and power by having the seat BACK more, more behind the crank and pedals.

Anything the bike shop did you should give a few days to let your body try it. If your muscles have been used to a bad position for a while, then a new position will be pulling your body into a new conformation, which is bound to feel uncomfortable at first, and may cause muscles to object to the change for a while. People feel discomfort and pain differently as well. When we get a new saddle it can cause very real sitbone soreness for the first few days and then we feel very comfortable as our body adjusts. Commonly a new road bike feels "too high" to someone who has been used to a hybrid or mtn bike or comfort bike. After a week or two it doesn't seem too high at all. When I got my road bike I felt the handlebars were "too low and way too far away" and felt i was falling forward onto my hands. My hands hurt after riding. In reality I had not built up the torso strength needed to balance my body evenly over my seat, feet, and hands. After a month, it feels more comfortable and natural to me every day now, and my hands no longer hurt at all.

We should also remember that bike frame geometry and proportion varies, and certainly frames cannot be judged just by standover height. Not every 54cm frame is the same size. Rivendell frames for example have a different geometry, and so my 54cm Rivendell bike frame fits me perfectly at 5' 5'" height with an average woman's build. So no one here can tell me MY 54cm bike is "too big" for me at 5'5", because it's a totally perfect fit!
Just my 2 cents.

[run it, ride it]

The seat adjustment was actually a positive move--I'm getting better power in the legs. However, it's moved me even further from the handlebars. They don't feel too low at all--they are too high, and too far forward.

I've ridden the bike in the new configuration as much as possible over the past week, but after 3km I can barely breathe for the sharp, sharp pain in my lower back. The original thrust problem is all but solved, and yes, my legs got used to a farther aft seat. I've said it before, I'll endure any pain for the sake of efficiency, but what I'm feeling in my back is immediate and crippling.

Thanks again for all the advice on this continuing journey. Monday I'm back to the bike store, so wish me luck, girls!

[mimitabby]

The seat adjustment was actually a positive move--I'm getting better power in the legs. However, it's moved me even further from the handlebars. They don't feel too low at all--they are too high, and too far forward.

I've ridden the bike in the new configuration as much as possible over the past week, but after 3km I can barely breathe for the sharp, sharp pain in my lower back. The original thrust problem is all but solved, and yes, my legs got used to a farther aft seat. I've said it before, I'll endure any pain for the sake of efficiency, but what I'm feeling in my back is immediate and crippling.

Thanks again for all the advice on this continuing journey. Monday I'm back to the bike store, so wish me luck, girls!

I don't know if you followed my comedy of errors from when I got my bike in May.
But I went through some of the same things as you. the woman I paid to fit me sized me up after she was done and said "you LOOK comfortable"
and I wasn't...
I went home and lowered my seat so that it was way too low for my legs
but all of a sudden, the back/hands issue went away. So i knew that
i could be fitted to the bike if they could just get the handlebars SOMEWHERE ELSE... and yesterday; at another bike shop, with advice from New Zealand... I finally got it right!

don't give up until it's right because riding in pain is no fun and is not worth it.
good luck
mimi

[Triskeliongirl]

If you are going to the shop tomorrow, why don't you also bring with you the bike that fits, and see if they can measure the old bike and then adjust the new one so the fits are similar.

[run it, ride it]

And after a week on the new bike with the new adjustments, I'm just not sure about the old one anymore. I rode it to work today and wouldn't you know, it gives me pain in the left shoulder, and now that I've been reformed from my running posture, the seat feels too far forward and too low. I have some more tweaking to do to!

I'll bring it along, anyway. If only to illustrate, "THIS IS WHERE HANDLEBARS BELONG!" I hope no one pulls anything trying to mount that beast on the trainer. I forgot how heavy the steel frame is!

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

If you can stand it, give your new bike a few more days for your body to adjust to the new positions. I know you have some pain, but it might ease up and the longer you wait the more it will become clear where the problems are. New positions can be uncomfortable until your body adapts, and they **may** be really comfortable later!
I'm now holding off on installing the new shorter stem I had ordered after riding my new road bike for a week- I really was convinced the handlebars were WAY too far away at first, all my weight was on my hands, and my hands were going numb. The more I ride, the more comfortable I am though, and my body has gotten stronger and more balanced and now my weight seems to be naturally distributing itself between my hands, seat and feet! No more numb hands. Now my handlebars don't seem so far away at all, the bike doesn't seem impossibly tall anymore, etc. It just took a month of riding for my body to adjust to the new bike and the new positions. I am really comfortable now, I feel like I fit my bike perfectly, and am starting to ride with more power and grace than on the old "comfortable" upright hybrid loaner bike I started with. I NEVER would have thought this was possible, without actually going through it myself. It's weird to experience.

[run it, ride it]

The curious part of it is that I rode in a more aggressive position on the old bike than I do on the new one. I've got all the core strength in the world from running and Dressage, but I feel like I can't use it--like all the stress goes straight to that one spot in my back.

Sigh.. we'll adjust the handlebars... and this time I think I'll agree to the shorter stem. I've realized I don't want any lower handlebars; I raised the seat of the old bike up to where it SHOULD be and I have a serious downhill slope to me.

Just how seriously is my control going to be compromised by a shorter stem?

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Just how seriously is my control going to be compromised by a shorter stem?

Not much, if it's a reasonable amount of change. Your body will adjust!