(rant) yielding trail

[gabrielle]

All right. I am just so fed up with this.

On mtb trails, the rider going uphill has the ROW. Lately, I have encountered fewer & fewer other riders who apparently are not aware of this or are choosing to ignore it.

(edit: that should say "more and more". I'm so ticked I can't think straight. )

I don't know if these guys (and not to be sexist, but it is ALWAYS guys) think that because I'm a chick I'm going to get out of their way or what. I almost got in a crash yesterday because some !@@#$ing idiot came bombing down on top of me! (And then he had the nerve to yell at me about riding the trail in the wrong direction...which I wasn't...but that's another rant).

Anybody have any ideas how to deal with this without getting in a trail brawl? I'm ready to punch some lights out.

gabrielle

[bounceswoosh]

I've never actually seen it posted anywhere that the uphiller has the right of way =/ It makes sense, of course, but all of the trail use signs only say that mtbers are lower than dirt and everyone has ROW ahead of them.

Ideas ... ideas ... no, not really. In fact, I even asked one of the local park guys (summer hire, not a permanent employee) what to do (this was about mtbers abusing the trail, not necessarily to do with ROW) and he didn't have any good answer for me =/

Sometimes I wish we had license plates on our bikes so I could report 'em!

[Trek420]

gabrielle, it's not just mtb trails.

I've noted that on multiuse trails and even roads when riders are riding side-by-side whether I am attempting to pass or going the opposite way, guys as a rule (there are acceptions) will not yeild. If I'm heading towards them the guy on the outside (on a road this means they are riding the wrong way and forcing me into traffic) will not drop back behind his buddy.

It's funny but every action to them seems like it MUST result in going faster. I have no problem with folks riding two abreast if you can see it's clear ahead but not when you can't see what lies ahead, and not if someone is clearly passing or going opposite, then it drives me nucking futs.

I rarely ride two areast but when I do I work out with the other rider that one of us will drop back if a cyclist/ped/skater is ahead. Sometimes it makes me want to stand in the pedals and accelerate (just because I'm a woman does not mean I'm not going fast) same thing if I come upon 2 riders and call out to pass, if a guy is on the outside he will not drop back to go single file, he will not let me through till he passes his buddy (who also in a testosterone overdose can't possibly be passed by a girl).

I've seen this in women riders but usualy they are new and when you explain the logic/safety they get it (not always-ahem) but amoung men this seems universal.

Some of my best friends are men ;-) But as someone who does not have to deal with men closely on a day by day basis (gay) I'm at a loss to explain this phenomenon ;-) Can this be cured? or are we stuck with this.

[Veronica]

I think it depends on the men. Most of the guys in my local club are great - very supportive, go out of their way to make sure that everyone, including other non club riders, are safe - both on trails and on the road. I love to ride with them, because my riding always goes up a notch or two. (Plus they have great legs!)


I see the problem more with guys and chicks riding by themselves. It's like they get into their own little world and it's all about them. They don't wave when you pass in opposite directions, they don't say anything when they pass you from behind. That one really bothers me. How hard is it to say, "On your left."

Back to Gabriell's question. I always figured that descenders had the right of way - it's a control issue. The climber can just about always get out of the way a lot easier than the descender.

Veronica

[bounceswoosh]

Odd. I always thought uphillers should have the right of way because a downhiller can always get started again more easily. They may have to walk a chunk first, but that's a lot easier down than up.

Also, one of the rules in the skier's code of conduct states that you must always be in control enough to stop in time to avoid an accident. I don't see any reason for this not to apply to mountain bikes -- if you're going around a blind corner, you should slow down. If you can see what's coming up, you should be ready to stop. Certainly, the rules on the multi-use trails here require mountain bikes to yield to everyone no matter the direction, so you need to be able to do this anyway.

Am I way off base?

[bounceswoosh]

Oh, and, Trek 420 -- I've been around guys all my life and they still baffle me! I can often predict what they'll do, but I can't explain it!

[Veronica]

I actually just did a little research and you're right! Uphillers have the right of way for exactly the reasons you stated.

V.

[Trek420]

Veronica wrote "I think it depends on the men. Most of the guys in my local club are great - very supportive, go out of their way to make sure that everyone, including other non club riders, are safe - both on trails and on the road. I love to ride with them, because my riding always goes up a notch or two. (Plus they have great legs!)"

True, it takes your riding up a notch to keep up with guys!

"I see the problem more with guys and chicks riding by themselves. It's like they get into their own little world and it's all about them. They don't wave when you pass in opposite directions, they don't say anything when they pass you from behind. That one really bothers me. How hard is it to say, "On your left.""

What's with that? Why so many grumpy bikers? Say "hi", nod, wave, do sumthin' friendly! If you can't spare a breath to say "howdy" you should be home in front of the TV not riding ;-)

"Back to Gabriell's question. I always figured that descenders had the right of way - it's a control issue. The climber can just about always get out of the way a lot easier than the descender. "

Uh, I should know this, what's the rule driving? Going downhill, narrow road, car driving uphill, who has right of way?

[Irulan]

Originally posted by Trek420

Uh, I should know this, what's the rule driving? Going downhill, narrow road, car driving uphill, who has right of way?

I know, I know, from my 4x4 days... Moving downhill always gives way to moving uphill. Think about it, if one of you has to put in the clutch, and shift into reverse to let the other one pass, the one going downhill will have more control ( ie, backing UP in reverse) than the one going up... releasing the clutch while going uphill can be downright scary as gravity grabs you and pulls you backwards.

Same thing... the rider going up hill will have a lot harder time regaining their power/momentum if they yield, than the down hill rider., who can just hop back on the bike and regain speed in no time.

Irulan

[JanT]

Yes, uphill has the right of way on the trail. However, just like with driving, you can never assume anybody is going to actually follow the rules. So I always thank those who pause at the top of the hills and allow little, old, slow me to struggle all the way up. (And just like when driving, I mutter grouchy oaths when people don't follow the rules!)

[pedalfaster]

At least that's what I've been taught. So yeah, it makes sense that downhill riders yield to uphill riders....except... my personal motto is "yield to the bigger dork". In other words, if the rider heading down is waaaaay outta control, skidding and grabbing handfulls of rear brake, I get the heck out of the way. I figure learning to stop and re-start on an uphill and/or practice trackstanding and/or taking the more difficult line only improves my riding.

Ditto for riding my road bike on bike paths. Most of the riders there are families (with kiddos) and newbies and my "job" is to give them plenty of room.

I need a jersey that says what I really think: "I'm not yielding because I'm a girl; I'm getting the heck out of the way because you suck."

[maryellen]

<<I need a jersey that says what I really think: "I'm not yielding because I'm a girl; I'm getting the heck out of the way because you suck." >>

hey, pedalfaster, I don't use trails, but I need one of these jerseys too! Maybe we can make them the official team estrogen jersey.

[bounceswoosh]

I just noticed this:

http://www.fs.fed.us/r2/arnf/recreat...rd/index.shtml

"Approach turns in anticipation of someone around the bend. Downhill riders yield to uphill riders."

Of course, these are presented as rules for that park, not necessarily universal ...

[Irulan]

The point being, how do you "enforce" said rule? You can't, really, unless you happen to be able to have a gentle education moment with said riders.

right.

Irulan

* or, if you are on a trail systme with an IMBA bike patrol, then it would be a moot point.

[gabrielle]

Originally posted by Irulan
The point being, how do you "enforce" said rule? You can't, really, unless you happen to be able to have a gentle education moment with said riders.

I usually have non-gentle education moments with these people.

gabrielle