Bianchi Eros Donna/Veloce or Giant TCR 3?

[7rider]

It's common for bike lines to use the same frame, and just up-spec the components as you go up the line. For example, to use the Shimano line, Frame X with Taigra is entry level, Frame X with 105 is a step up (and a step up in price), Frame X with Ultegra and finally with Dura Ace. Major changes in frame (say from touring geometry to racing) will result in a new line.
I'm not familiar with the Giant line, but I'd venture that they do things similarly.
Fit and comfort and how it feels to you are the key things here.

[roguedog]

Thanks all.

I agree with you all. I think both bikes are good and I'll like them both. Which is probably the crux of my problem with deciding on which. They both have the ride qualities (lively, good road feeedback without road buzz, faaaast, zipeeee) I like but their personalities are just slightly different.

So.. from there you kinda have to break it down to the "little things" like components, the "right now" value and the potential upradeabbility.. don't you?

Speaking of.. does anyone know how "princess like" carbon is? Do you really have to baby it and all? Is it true that if you biff on it it's a goner? On the other hand, steel.. don't you have to worry bout rust and all?

[mimitabby]

You can rub steel clean to get the rust off.
Carbon fiber can't be fixed.
A bike friend was in an accident recently and his carbon fork shredded into a
million shards. Meanwhile, the steel in the rest of his bike bent.
the steel could be bent back, the carbon, well, he's lucky he didn't get stabbed with it.
I also have heard complaints about carbon parts just breaking under stress. The thing is, carbon is expensive. If your steel part breaks (which isn't going to happen) it's going to cost a lot less than the carbon part.
I am feeling very guilty for letting them talk me into buying a carbon fork
instead of a steel one.

[KnottedYet]

That is my fear with carbon forks. I hear too much about them disintegrating. Yeah, a good carbon fork is supposed to feel like steel. The benefit is the weight reduction. If I want to feel like steel, I'll ride on steel. Weight doesn't matter that much to me. After all, I weigh a whole lot more than the bike anyway.

Like Mr. Bontrager (can't remember his first name, sorry) says: "Cheap, strong, or light. You can have 2, but not all 3."

I'm more comfortable physically and mentally with a steel fork. (which my Kona has, and my Waterford has.)

My biking gurus at my LBS say steel can break, but it generally fails slowly enough that you can tell something is wrong and stop while aluminum and CF do "catastrophic failure". (these guys are crazy mountain bikers and really trash their bikes, your results may vary...)

[xeney]

In my house we have or have recently sold steel bikes from the 40s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, and 2000s. The ones from the 40s and 60s do have some rust, but they were both clearly left outside for years and years. The one from the 70s has some surface rust that could be taken care of with a steel pad if anyone liked that bike enough to bother. The ones from the 80s and 90s are completely clean.

I asked my husband about this yesterday because his new bike is CF. He loves that bike but he says he expects to trade it out for a custom steel frame in four or five years. CF is a lot better than it used to be, but I don't think anyone really knows how long CF frames are going to last. Earlier generations of CF frames are pretty much no longer on the road ... you see those ten-year-old Specialized Epics around, but that's about it.

(He wrecked his Giant last night, not badly but enough to put a ding on chain stay, and I am now a little worried about his continuing to ride it. On the other hand, he got hit by a car on a 12-year-old steel Allez this spring, and the frame is bent and unfixable, so the permanence of steel is also possibly a little exaggerated in some quarters.)

[mimitabby]

On the other hand, he got hit by a car on a 12-year-old steel Allez this spring, and the frame is bent and unfixable, so the permanence of steel is also possibly a little exaggerated in some quarters.)

When the steel bends, it is absorbing some of the shock that would have gone right to the rider in a carbon fiber; it has to do with the physics of the density of the material. Carbon fiber won't protect you that way.

[xeney]

Oh, I am pretty sure he was no longer on the bike by the time it bent!

I love my steel frames, don't get me wrong, but I kind of think there are just as many ridiculous claims made about steel as there are about carbon fiber and aluminum and everything else. For one, the idea that if your steel frame gets broken or bent you can just have it fixed -- most frame shops are going to refuse to do that, and they will advise you to buy a new frame.

And we've had two steel forks fail.

[7rider]

Anything made by man (or woman) can fail.
To not buy a bike because something *could* happen means you won't buy a bike. Steel can fail (there's a thread on roadbikereview.com about a very expensive steel Soma that failed at a chainstay right now). Aluminum can fail. Carbon can fail. Even titanium - if you run it into a car hard enough, as my LBS found out, can fail.
Life takes a leap of faith. Have a little faith in the R&D department of your favorite bike manufacturer. They don't *want* to send out anything that isn't safe. They won't do it. It's generally regarded as bad for business.
So..rougedog, if the lively feel of a carbon bike suits your taste, go for it. If the compliant ride of a steel bike suits your taste, go for it. Chances are very good that either of those bikes will see you through many happy years of cycling.

[mimitabby]

well, it depends.
someone I know had a whole "stable" of bikes in his garage and there was a fire.
when he got back in there there was only one bike standing, his titanium.
well, it wasn't standing; the frame was still intact. he rebuilt it and called it smokey. his aluminum and carbon fiber bikes were literally toast.

[Trekhawk]

well, it depends.
someone I know had a whole "stable" of bikes in his garage and there was a fire.
when he got back in there there was only one bike standing, his titanium.
well, it wasn't standing; the frame was still intact. he rebuilt it and called it smokey. his aluminum and carbon fiber bikes were literally toast.

I love my carbon bikes so I think I will risk the possibility of it being destroyed by fire. If a fire gets to my bikes (they live inside) then I think I have far greater worries than the loss of my bikes.

[SouthernBelle]

I think you need to look to the warranty. I know the giant carbon frame and fork has a lifetime warranty. Plus good insurance is a plus.

I think if you wreck hard enough it doesn't matter what material you are riding.

[KnottedYet]

I've never ridden a titanium bike. How does titanium feel? I mean, for someone who just likes to ride, not race.

I keep going to the Bianchi pictures.... man, those really are pretty bikes! And Campy...

I'm hoping to get a Campy Veloce compact double (on sale at Nashbar for $140) and use the Bikejournal coupon (15% off) next week. Pay day is a'coming and I've already spent my check!

[7rider]

I've never ridden a titanium bike. How does titanium feel? I mean, for someone who just likes to ride, not race.

I keep going to the Bianchi pictures.... man, those really are pretty bikes! And Campy...

I'm hoping to get a Campy Veloce compact double (on sale at Nashbar for $140) and use the Bikejournal coupon (15% off) next week. Pay day is a'coming and I've already spent my check!

Please excuse the hijack, but roguedog, you've really got us going all over the place!

I sort of fell into a titanium Seven Axiom. I don't race, I just ride for fitness. My Seven is off the shelf, not custom - although you can customize it to give any sort of ride you like. The Seven is SWEET! I say it rides like silk on the road. Mine is smoooooth. Compliant, quick, responsive, but never harsh. It knows where I want to go before I do.
Two words: Love. It.
Check it out at www.sevencycles.com
BTW, I have a FSA SLK-compact crank on it, and I like that, too.
I do have a soft spot for Bianchis. They are sweet, too. The wheelbase of the Eros I had was much longer than my current bike, so it had a very different ride. Not better, not worse. Just different.

[roguedog]

No worries bout hijack.. always interesting and informative..! hijack away.

[Bad JuJu]

I sort of fell into a titanium Seven Axiom.

Wow, wish I could engineer a "fall" like that!