Outbreak of Peace (long)

[Trek420]

mtkitchn "I hope the cease fire holds for you Margo. It would be nice if someday there could be peace on earth (HA!)."

Me too, now let healing begin.

"War is so horrible to the environment. War is so horrible to everything. I'm so sorry your forest has been destroyed."

I'm thinking, it's our forest too. War effects us all.

Same ocean, same air (everybody join hands and sing Kumbaya).

Nanci, TE, now it is up to us. Not to politicize TE, I don't care whether you're "red" or "blue" maybe now more will see it's important and care. Our foreign policy effects others and the earth itself. Elections are around the corner. More people vote for American Idol than in national elections. That's a shame.

Vote early and often

[oxysback]

More people vote for American Idol than in national elections. That's a shame.

Hmm, imagine unlimited phone and text votes...and no age limit! Not really an accurate comparison, IMO.

:::ducking and running:::

[eclectic]

So hard to imagine the devastation while I am sitting here in my safe little world.

thank you for the description it brings a reality to the situation.

May the cease fire hold and the crickets continue to chirp

[Trek420]

oxysback "Hmm, imagine unlimited phone and text votes...and no age limit! Not really an accurate comparison, IMO. "

now THERE'S an idea!

":::ducking and running:::"

Come back, no problem, no need to duck and run. It feels good finaly to be able to laugh a little about it. Still very sad for all the people who suffered on both sides. This is where my Dad was raised after all.

[oxysback]

Come back, no problem, no need to duck and run. It feels good finaly to be able to laugh a little about it. Still very sad for all the people who suffered on both sides. This is where my Dad was raised after all.

Agreed. War is hell.

I was talking to a high school guy awhile back. He voiced the opinion that no wars should have happened...ever. I then asked him if he liked his freedom. He looked at me funny until I mentioned the Civil War. He happens to be black. Point made.

Some people don't get that sometimes there are righeous reasons for war.

[Duck on Wheels]

Agreed. War is hell.

I was talking to a high school guy awhile back. He voiced the opinion that no wars should have happened...ever. I then asked him if he liked his freedom. He looked at me funny until I mentioned the Civil War. He happens to be black. Point made.

Some people don't get that sometimes there are righeous reasons for war.

Well ... maybe he had a point there. Not that no war ever had a "silver lining" outcome, but that it would have been preferable, and possible!, to achieve that outcome by other means. Choosing pacifism does not necessarily mean choosing passivity!

[Geonz]

I took an entire course on the Civil War. (So no, I"m not an expert !!)

Its necessity for ending slavery is arguable. Putting a "spin" on human motivation wasn't invented in the 20th century.
THe whole premise that "war is just necessary" is something that needs to at *least* be questioned.

(I'm afraid this professor had consistently convincing evidence that economic forces and egoes-in-power were the driving forces in generating wars; wars can be extremely economically beneficial for people with enough business clout to have enough money to be insulated from them. Reckon it's kinda like performance enhancing drugs - everybody does it so it must be okay... which of course, is how a lot of people felt about slavery...)

I am so glad the birds are back, and hope the jackals can find solace.

[chickwhorips]

i'm very happy to hear from you and to hear how things are going. though its bitter sweet considering all the rebuilding that has to be done. not only for the people, but the animals and environment as well. i pray that thing stay quiet in the world of fighting, but are loud with the birds and rebuilding.

thank you for sharing your life and your experience. you, your family and friends are always in my thoughts.

[Bruno28]

I took an entire course on the Civil War. (So no, I"m not an expert !!)

And I was always brought up to believe that Americans had no sense of irony! But I digress...

[doc]

Agreed. War is hell.
I was talking to a high school guy awhile back. He voiced the opinion that no wars should have happened...ever. I then asked him if he liked his freedom. He looked at me funny until I mentioned the Civil War. He happens to be black. Point made.
Some people don't get that sometimes there are righeous reasons for war.

Sorry. I do NOT believe there is ever a righteous reason to start a war. After all, the spanish inquisition was righteous, Hitler surely felt righteous, and Bush felt righteuos actually starting a war which has now gone on for years with absolutely no end in sight. Currently it can only be described as a civil war due to his destruction of their dictatorial (and admittedly NOT civil rights protecting, unfair, insane) government and infrastructure.

Very few people (not zero, I know) died in Sadam Hussein's era, and thousands and thousands of iraqis have died because of Bush with 10's to 100's dying every day now. I sure don't see anything righteous here. Or smart. Or successful.

As for the American civil war, you don't know the alternative outcomes that could have occured if war was averted. Let's say there was no war and the north and south split peacefully. The north probably would have chosen to outlaw slavery. It is certainly conceivable, and in fact likely, that with time the south would have changed it's structure as the political climate and influences of bordering countries pressured it. Ultimately, the south would very likely have gotten rid of slavery as well. The civil war remains the war during which the USA had the highest number of casualties. I don't see how that is righteous.

War is always the worst solution. Diplomacy coupled with respect for other people's right to exist and live differently should be the goal of every conflict.

[oxysback]

War is always the worst solution. Diplomacy coupled with respect for other people's right to exist and live differently should be the goal of every conflict.

Of course...in a perfect world. But until then my opinion is that things happen for a reason. The casualties are horrible...yes. Good people die that probably had a long life ahead of them. I get that.

I just have a hard time believing we were supposed to just lie down and take it when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor....or when we wanted to be independent from England...or when planes were hijacked and flown into buildings.

There's nothing more I would like to see our world live in peace. But it's just not going to happen anytime in the near future.

This is my last post on this subject. I recognize that we all have our own opinions and they will clash when the subject is so sensitive. But I wish to remain in good standing on this wonderful board!

My sincere apologies for the thread drift, Margo. I'm thrilled that those in your area of the world have some respite from the fighting.

[doc]

1. I just have a hard time believing we were supposed to just lie down and take it when the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbor....or when we wanted to be independent from England...or when planes were hijacked and flown into buildings.

2. There's nothing more I would like to see our world live in peace. But it's just not going to happen anytime in the near future.

3. This is my last post on this subject. I recognize that we all have our own opinions and they will clash when the subject is so sensitive. But I wish to remain in good standing on this wonderful board!

4. My sincere apologies for the thread drift, Margo. I'm thrilled that those in your area of the world have some respite from the fighting.

1. I never said anything about self defense. Plus, don't be fooled into thinking the war in iraq has anything to do with the hijacked planes being flown into the world trade center. That war is about oil. The only connection is al quada and iraq are both spelled with a q

2. Why not?

3. Ditto.

4. Ditto

[Kitsune06]

hey, if we can only get every citizen in the 'states to register to vote and actually vote we'll be doing something. I try so hard not to be political here (I could go on and on) but seriously bad things are happening to our personal rights and freedoms... and they'll keep happening if eveyone hears what's happening and goes "No WAY... they can't REALLY be considering THAT"
... Funny, you don't often hear this stuff on the news, either.
ok... sorry about the interlude, it's just been bugging me all day.

[Running Mommy]

This whole thing about voting reminds me of a funny thing..
A few years back when CA decided to recall it's govenor I had a friend in Sac who was all up in arms trying to get everyone to sign the petition to recall him. He actually made this statement- I almost fell on the floor!
Him: " well if the recall gets put on the ballot I'll actually go VOTE this time"
Me: "what do you mean? You don't vote??!!"
him: "No. I haven't voted in years"
Me: "The you have NO RIGHT to beaatch about Gray Davis!!!"....
Ahhh I still get riled up over that one!!
Ahh gotta love our fellow americans!!

[Patti37]

You are in my thoughts...always. I hope the ceasfire holds and that those in power realize the damage that has been caused.

The spirit of people in difficult circumstances can be remarkable. I hope you and those around you can rebuild what was lost.