Floyd-Results are back

[Triskeliongirl]

Results seem inconsistent, if the T is normal. What would cause the low E? Is the actual test result published or do we have to rely on the news?

The ratio of T/E is considered more reliable than the actual T level as an indication of doping, since the absolute amount of testosterone in his urine can be influenced by the amount of liquid he drinks, but no matter how hard he tries to dilute it out, he can't change the ratio of testsosterone to epitestosterone. The ratio test is based on the fact that since epitestosterone is the precurser of testosterone, if the testosterone is naturally made in the body, this should be balanced by a similar amount of epitestosterone, for most people this ratio is 1:1, UCI allows up to 4:1 and his was 11:1. When one supplements with testosterone, the amount of testosterone relative to epitestosterone is elevated, although some avoid detection by also taking epitestosterone along with testosterone. Now it is true that some people have abnormally high T/E ratios naturally, but supposedly his other 5 samples tested at the tour showed normal ratios. It is true that alcohol consumption can effect the ratio, but why did first he claim to have had one beer, then all of a sudden he also had some Jack D, etc. (it takes a lot of alcohol to elevate the TE ratio). But, because of these issues if all they had was the elevated T/E ratio it may have been difficult to make a definitive case. But, the mass spec allows them to detect subtle differences in the isotope of carbon found in plant sterols vs human sterols. Since plant sterols are used to make testosterone in the lab, the finding of carbon isotopes in a ratio found in plants and not people is very convincing.

What bothers me now, is his lawers are making their arguments on lack of due process (leaking results to the press) vs whether he actually did it (i.e. see latest articles at velonews.com), and seem to be trying to salvage his reputation by putting questions that aren't there about the science in the minds of a public that doesn't understand the science.

[Delta7]

"why did first he claim to have had one beer, then all of a sudden he also had some Jack D"

First time I heard of the beer, whiskey was also mentioned, but anywho, so your saying the ratio and not the actual level of T is what is manipulated and thus cause a performance increase? I don't know science, but I do know numbers, so this is interesting.

Cheers.

[Triskeliongirl]

" so your saying the ratio and not the actual level of T is what is manipulated and thus cause a performance increase? I don't know science, but I do know numbers, so this is interesting. Cheers.

What I am saying, is that if one takes exogenous testosterone, 2 things will help, the absolute level of testosterone will go up, as will the ratio of testosterone to epitestosterone. Floyd is arguing that since his absolute level of testosterone isn't above normal he didn't do it, however, the absolute level in urine is heavily influenced by hydration state, so this doesn't get him off the hook. However, had it also been high, it would be one more strike against him. That is why I read that some athletes dope with a patch containing both T and E that they place on their scrotum after a hard day for recovery. In general the amounts are low enough to not effect the total amount of T, or upset the ratio, and therefore go undetected.

[velogirl]

What bothers me now, is his lawers are making their arguments on lack of due process (leaking results to the press) vs whether he actually did it (i.e. see latest articles at velonews.com), and seem to be trying to salvage his reputation by putting questions that aren't there about the science in the minds of a public that doesn't understand the science.

Actually, I don't think this argument will be his primary defense. Floyd's case is now turned over to the US governing body (USACycling) -- USADA oversees the process for USAC. There is a very stringent appeal process.

I think the lawyers are working on a libel suit (or due process or whatever). This would be completely separate and in addition to the doping appeal and my guess is that it will be directed at McQuaid/UCI, the French lab, and probably L'Equipe (the paper who first published the findings and is rumored to be in cahoots with the source at the lab. I think they're trying to recoup some of the financial loss Floyd will suffer if he's stripped of his title.

I do think there are questions about the science. Dozens of folks from the cycling industry and the sports science world have been quoted as questioning the validity of the T/E test. Of course, since all pros are dopers, they're probably all in cahoots, right?