Floyd-Results are back

[crazycanuck]

Sitting here reading about the positive B test on the BBC.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/othe...ng/5233476.stm

1-How can he fight the verdict? Would he still be able to race for another country or another team?

Is there another way of testing the sample provided?

2-I noticed he was a mtn biker-Do you think he'd go back to it? Could he?

I'm mainly curious-I don't follow roadie racing but I know you ladies love this gent...

c

[Dogmama]

Historically, cyclists have fought this and won. In this case, who knows? It still doesn't make sense that one day's test would be radically higher than the other tests.

I'm bummed.

[Kalidurga]

1-How can he fight the verdict? Would he still be able to race for another country or another team? Is there another way of testing the sample provided?

I believe the two-year ban prohibits a rider from racing in any professional event with any team in any country. There was a bit of controversy earlier this year over Tyler Hamilton racing by himself in a non-pro race in Colorado, but I think that it was technically allowable.

From what I've read, it sounds as if there are other tests that can be done besides the one's that returned this result. I hope that Floyd takes every test he can to obtain proof that'll back up his statements.

2-I noticed he was a mtn biker-Do you think he'd go back to it? Could he?

Apparently, Floyd left the mountain biking circuit because he felt there wasn't a future in it. It does seem that there's more financial stability in road racing, depending on the sponsorships you can pick up. Who knows what he'd consider at this point, though...

[Tuckervill]

I was kind of on the fence about it all, not having an opinion, but now, after reading Floyd's blog and then reading the AP article on AOL this morning in which they used the terms:

"his backup doping sample tested positive"
"sample confirmed the initial "adverse analytical finding" for higher-than-allowable levels of testosterone."
"who says the positive finding was due to naturally high testosterone levels"
"high testosterone reading"

I am on Floyd's side. There seems to be a lot of half-truths and obfuscation and misinterpretation of the results by the press. I know from personal experience that people writing articles about things they know only a little about get it wrong quite often. It has taken on a life of its own and the TDF people, UCI, and certainly Phonak are not treating him fairly.

If his testosterone was in the normal range as he says, it would only be fair that the press point that out, and explain that it's the ratio that matters, and not continue stating that it was a "positive" test or higher than allowable levels.

It also doesn't make sense that none of his other samples showed a similar result.

Unfortunately, I don't think he'll beat it. I think the lawsuits will carry on and on and in the meantime they'll strip his title and by the time the lawsuits are over it will be years too late to get his title back. I don't think he did it. Between a rock and a hard place, he is.

Karen

[Cassandra_Cain]

I guess this news really isn't shocking, especially as FL and his legal team said they expected a positive B sample.

I'm afraid I don't think FL being a nice guy or seeming sincere is enough for me. There is no nicer, down-to-earth, sweet guy in the pro circuit than Tyler Hamilton. There's no way such a nice rider like that, with his bouncy golden retrievers, and pretty wife could have cheated right? Yet he did, although his denials remain to the day.

So I don't know whether FL cheated or not - maybe, maybe not. They keep throwing out possible explanations, and at some point it starts sounding a bit hokey - beer, dehydration, cortisone shot, the full moon...

What I do know is that none of the other riders, all tremendous athletes like FL, did not fail those tests.

I'd like to see this resolved conclusively one way or another - guilty or innocent - I think the entire sport suffers greatly the longer this goes on.

[betagirl]

I think he's guilty. Then again I think most, if not all, pro cyclists dope.

What makes me think he's guilty is his incredible surge in performance from last year. He won FOUR tours this year. Four. That's incredible don't ya think? It was chalked up to intense training. Did he hold back until Lance retired? I doubt that. The two really don't like each other all that much. Or did he win Le Tour because the big name contenders were out from the Spanish investigation? I guess that could be the case too. I don't know, the whole thing just smells to me.

Greg Lemond had this to say:

"When I heard it was synthetic hormone, it is almost impossible to be caused by natural events. It's kind of a downer," said LeMond, the first American to win the Tour. "I feel for Floyd's family. I hope Floyd will come clean on it and help the sport. We need to figure out how to clean the sport up, and we need the help of Floyd."

I tend to agree with him, as hard as it is to swallow that Floyd cheated. They were probably masking it, and someone screwed up on that day and he got caught.

Just my $.02

[Selkie]

I was sorry to hear about the second test result. I don't know enough about the testing, etc. to make kind of conclusion.

I have to admit that I think Oscar P. is a hot thang and I was kind of rooting for him over FL (which is terrible, given the fact that I'm a native Pennsylvanian!). It's too bad that Oscar might end up winning this year's TDF because of FL's test result.

[Cassandra_Cain]

I was sorry to hear about the second test result. I don't know enough about the testing, etc. to make kind of conclusion.

I have to admit that I think Oscar P. is a hot thang and I was kind of rooting for him over FL (which is terrible, given the fact that I'm a native Pennsylvanian!). It's too bad that Oscar might end up winning this year's TDF because of FL's test result.

Pereiro is sizzling

I was cheering for him, just because nobody even gave him a chance. Plus I'm Spanish.

Regardless, I admire how he has said many times how bad this is for the sport, and how he'd rather remain second ideally.

[alpinerabbit]

I'm not so sure anymore.

There's a paper showing 11:1 ratios are quite normal, it was written elsewhere that the T value is not elevated, instead it's the E value that's low, and the reliabilty of the natural/synthetic testing is iffy at best.

He might win this in court.

[Triskeliongirl]

I think he's guilty. Then again I think most, if not all, pro cyclists dope.

I agree with you. What shocks me is that so many of you don't. Hey, I like Floyd as much as the next girl, I was rooting for him just like the rest of you, just like I did for Ivan, just like I did for Tyler, but how many times do we have to be let down by our heroes to get the message. These are the facts:

1. Failed T/E A test.
2. Falied T/E B test.
3. Mass Spec Results revealed testosterone made from a plant precurser. I am sorry ladies, but as a biochemist I know mass spec is extremely sensitive and reliable, so this either means Floyd is a plant or Floyd cheated.

Some will say if they all cheat, then he still won, but I say they all cheat, but to varying degrees and at different times. Floyd only failed the test on that day, because that is the day he popped testosterone, and that is the day no one could catch him cuz on that day no one else took as much of a performance enhancing drug as he did.

[Bikingmomof3]

I am new at this, so please bare with me-I have watched the Tour for years, but never followed the tech info.

I really want him to be clean. I like him (do not know him personally, but he appears to be a nice guy).

My question is this-will we ever know for certain? It appears that one can argue either way for the test results. Is the damage not already done? FL has his reputation in question. Some had already condemed him, others defend him, and then still some like me, waiting for proof positive one way or the other. Now I wonder will there ever be absolute proof of innocence of guilt?

I just find this entire situation terribly sad.

[jeannierides]

I don't know the answer to this any more than the rest of you. It is sad. And disappointing. And scary for FL, and any of the other cyclists that just might be clean.
The one thing I do know, though, is that I wouldn't listen to Greg Lemond about any of it... to hear him talk, he's the only cyclist that doesn't (didn't) dope.

[Triskeliongirl]

My question is this-will we ever know for certain? It appears that one can argue either way for the test results.

Yes we will, because we have SCIENCE. Yes, the lawyers are paid to make these arguments, but the test results don't lie. A process has begun, and there are likely to be more tests and examination of the results by scientific experts. So, yes in the end we will know. It is true that any one test might be flawed, but already we have the T/E ratio test done twice, we have the mass spec. result, and we have his extraordinary performance. While it is true that each of these things indicidually could have other explanations, when considered together a very solid case has formed

Think of it this way. You go to the doctor, and you take a test that says your TSH levels are above normal. You are feeling sluggish and perhaps other confirmatory tests are ordered. Based on the totality of the evidence, your doctor diagnoses you with a thyroid condition and prescribes thyroid hormone. Will you ever really know that you have a thyroid condition? Of course!

I know a lot of you out there want to believe Floyd, but this is a situation where I think we have to believe the scientists over the lawyers.

[Cindyloo]

I agree with the biochemist! I have used mas spec lots and know that it is extremely sensitive and the results are what they are. Go ahead with the "contamination" arguments .

Has Floyd never been tested in another race before? If he had high testosterone levels naturally (even if it's just during a race, dehydration, etc.) then the elevated levels would be there during another race. He's a nice guy, he wanted to win, he thought he could possibly flush it out with all that water he was drinking the next day and no one would be the wiser. Got caught. Basically it doesn't matter what any of us think because it is up to the UCI and/or the courts.

[Delta7]

Results seem inconsistent, if the T is normal. What would cause the low E? Is the actual test result published or do we have to rely on the news?

Cheers.