Floyd-Results are back

[Tuckervill]

I was kind of on the fence about it all, not having an opinion, but now, after reading Floyd's blog and then reading the AP article on AOL this morning in which they used the terms:

"his backup doping sample tested positive"
"sample confirmed the initial "adverse analytical finding" for higher-than-allowable levels of testosterone."
"who says the positive finding was due to naturally high testosterone levels"
"high testosterone reading"

I am on Floyd's side. There seems to be a lot of half-truths and obfuscation and misinterpretation of the results by the press. I know from personal experience that people writing articles about things they know only a little about get it wrong quite often. It has taken on a life of its own and the TDF people, UCI, and certainly Phonak are not treating him fairly.

If his testosterone was in the normal range as he says, it would only be fair that the press point that out, and explain that it's the ratio that matters, and not continue stating that it was a "positive" test or higher than allowable levels.

It also doesn't make sense that none of his other samples showed a similar result.

Unfortunately, I don't think he'll beat it. I think the lawsuits will carry on and on and in the meantime they'll strip his title and by the time the lawsuits are over it will be years too late to get his title back. I don't think he did it. Between a rock and a hard place, he is.

Karen

[Cassandra_Cain]

I guess this news really isn't shocking, especially as FL and his legal team said they expected a positive B sample.

I'm afraid I don't think FL being a nice guy or seeming sincere is enough for me. There is no nicer, down-to-earth, sweet guy in the pro circuit than Tyler Hamilton. There's no way such a nice rider like that, with his bouncy golden retrievers, and pretty wife could have cheated right? Yet he did, although his denials remain to the day.

So I don't know whether FL cheated or not - maybe, maybe not. They keep throwing out possible explanations, and at some point it starts sounding a bit hokey - beer, dehydration, cortisone shot, the full moon...

What I do know is that none of the other riders, all tremendous athletes like FL, did not fail those tests.

I'd like to see this resolved conclusively one way or another - guilty or innocent - I think the entire sport suffers greatly the longer this goes on.

[betagirl]

I think he's guilty. Then again I think most, if not all, pro cyclists dope.

What makes me think he's guilty is his incredible surge in performance from last year. He won FOUR tours this year. Four. That's incredible don't ya think? It was chalked up to intense training. Did he hold back until Lance retired? I doubt that. The two really don't like each other all that much. Or did he win Le Tour because the big name contenders were out from the Spanish investigation? I guess that could be the case too. I don't know, the whole thing just smells to me.

Greg Lemond had this to say:

"When I heard it was synthetic hormone, it is almost impossible to be caused by natural events. It's kind of a downer," said LeMond, the first American to win the Tour. "I feel for Floyd's family. I hope Floyd will come clean on it and help the sport. We need to figure out how to clean the sport up, and we need the help of Floyd."

I tend to agree with him, as hard as it is to swallow that Floyd cheated. They were probably masking it, and someone screwed up on that day and he got caught.

Just my $.02

[Triskeliongirl]

I think he's guilty. Then again I think most, if not all, pro cyclists dope.

I agree with you. What shocks me is that so many of you don't. Hey, I like Floyd as much as the next girl, I was rooting for him just like the rest of you, just like I did for Ivan, just like I did for Tyler, but how many times do we have to be let down by our heroes to get the message. These are the facts:

1. Failed T/E A test.
2. Falied T/E B test.
3. Mass Spec Results revealed testosterone made from a plant precurser. I am sorry ladies, but as a biochemist I know mass spec is extremely sensitive and reliable, so this either means Floyd is a plant or Floyd cheated.

Some will say if they all cheat, then he still won, but I say they all cheat, but to varying degrees and at different times. Floyd only failed the test on that day, because that is the day he popped testosterone, and that is the day no one could catch him cuz on that day no one else took as much of a performance enhancing drug as he did.

[Bikingmomof3]

I am new at this, so please bare with me-I have watched the Tour for years, but never followed the tech info.

I really want him to be clean. I like him (do not know him personally, but he appears to be a nice guy).

My question is this-will we ever know for certain? It appears that one can argue either way for the test results. Is the damage not already done? FL has his reputation in question. Some had already condemed him, others defend him, and then still some like me, waiting for proof positive one way or the other. Now I wonder will there ever be absolute proof of innocence of guilt?

I just find this entire situation terribly sad.

[jeannierides]

I don't know the answer to this any more than the rest of you. It is sad. And disappointing. And scary for FL, and any of the other cyclists that just might be clean.
The one thing I do know, though, is that I wouldn't listen to Greg Lemond about any of it... to hear him talk, he's the only cyclist that doesn't (didn't) dope.

[Cindyloo]

I agree with the biochemist! I have used mas spec lots and know that it is extremely sensitive and the results are what they are. Go ahead with the "contamination" arguments .

Has Floyd never been tested in another race before? If he had high testosterone levels naturally (even if it's just during a race, dehydration, etc.) then the elevated levels would be there during another race. He's a nice guy, he wanted to win, he thought he could possibly flush it out with all that water he was drinking the next day and no one would be the wiser. Got caught. Basically it doesn't matter what any of us think because it is up to the UCI and/or the courts.

[Triskeliongirl]

My question is this-will we ever know for certain? It appears that one can argue either way for the test results.

Yes we will, because we have SCIENCE. Yes, the lawyers are paid to make these arguments, but the test results don't lie. A process has begun, and there are likely to be more tests and examination of the results by scientific experts. So, yes in the end we will know. It is true that any one test might be flawed, but already we have the T/E ratio test done twice, we have the mass spec. result, and we have his extraordinary performance. While it is true that each of these things indicidually could have other explanations, when considered together a very solid case has formed

Think of it this way. You go to the doctor, and you take a test that says your TSH levels are above normal. You are feeling sluggish and perhaps other confirmatory tests are ordered. Based on the totality of the evidence, your doctor diagnoses you with a thyroid condition and prescribes thyroid hormone. Will you ever really know that you have a thyroid condition? Of course!

I know a lot of you out there want to believe Floyd, but this is a situation where I think we have to believe the scientists over the lawyers.

[Delta7]

Results seem inconsistent, if the T is normal. What would cause the low E? Is the actual test result published or do we have to rely on the news?

Cheers.

[velogirl]

Think of it this way. You go to the doctor, and you take a test that says your TSH levels are above normal. You are feeling sluggish and perhaps other confirmatory tests are ordered. Based on the totality of the evidence, your doctor diagnoses you with a thyroid condition and prescribes thyroid hormone. Will you ever really know that you have a thyroid condition? Of course!

Neither here nor there (since I know you simply used thyroid as an example), but as someone mis-diagnosed as hyper-thyroid (based on testing only TSH) when in reality I was hypo (Hashimoto's) and had thyca, I can argue that there were additional tests my docs should've done (free T-3 and free T-4) that would have given them additional information to diagnose me correctly. I don't have a high level of confidence in labs or testing or docs. If my doc didn't have complete information, what's to say that the French labs have complete information in this case?

I'm not a scientist, but my understanding is that there is a question about the validity of the T/E ratio test, so much so that it's likely WADA will throw out the test in the next update.

Banned substance lists change all the time (once a year from WADA; national associations sometimes take longer to follow suit). And the testing and technology for detecting banned substances also changes. New tests (like the T/E test) are introduced and later found to be faulty. Landis and his lawyers are counting on this, I think.

I know science is as black & white as we can get, but there's still some gray around the edges if you ask me.

[Dogmama]

3. Mass Spec Results revealed testosterone made from a plant precurser. I am sorry ladies, but as a biochemist I know mass spec is extremely sensitive and reliable, so this either means Floyd is a plant or Floyd cheated.

Now THAT is funny. Needed a laugh.

If they can tell that the testosterone is exogenous, he's screwed. I wonder how the other cyclists have managed to beat this test result in court? Maybe testing methods were not as sensitive as what we have now?

[Triskeliongirl]

Now THAT is funny. Needed a laugh.

If they can tell that the testosterone is exogenous, he's screwed. I wonder how the other cyclists have managed to beat this test result in court? Maybe testing methods were not as sensitive as what we have now?

My understanding is the only test that has been beat is the T/E ratio test. I don't think they were expecting the mass spec test to be performed, since it is technically demanding and requires very expensive instrumentation.

[Bikingmomof3]

3. Mass Spec Results revealed testosterone made from a plant precurser. I am sorry ladies, but as a biochemist I know mass spec is extremely sensitive and reliable, so this either means Floyd is a plant or Floyd cheated.

My husband is a chemist and was Laughing is A** off when I read this to him.

[velogirl]

What makes me think he's guilty is his incredible surge in performance from last year. He won FOUR tours this year. Four. That's incredible don't ya think? It was chalked up to intense training. Did he hold back until Lance retired? I doubt that. The two really don't like each other all that much. Or did he win Le Tour because the big name contenders were out from the Spanish investigation? I guess that could be the case too. I don't know, the whole thing just smells to me.

Especially at the pro level, cycling is a multi-year sport. Floyd began working with Allen Lim last year (one of the rockstars of power-training and exercise physiology, and in my opinion one of the best coaches out there). I worked with Allen earlier this year and we discussed Floyd's training. He's focused his training for many seasons on 2006, meaning that he's trained through all these other races with the intention of peaking this year (when Lance had retired). That's not completely unusual (to have a multi-year cycle). Consider Olympic athletes. They may have smaller goal competitions, but their full training cycle is focused on one competition that's held every four years.

Until last year, Floyd wasn't a team leader either. He was a domestique for Lance on USPS and was expected to lieutenant for Tyler Hamilton on Phonak last year (until Tyler got the boot). Once Tyler was out, Floyd was moved into a team leader position.

It's not unusual for pro athletes to spend many years (a decade in Floyd's case) developing their potential. In cycling, an athlete gains experience, skills, works his way up the domestic and then international team structure, gains experience in different classics and stage races, serves as a domestique, points winner or stage winner in the TdF, and as the race leader in smaller tours before he'd even consider a goal such as winning TdF. Think about it. There are almost 200 racers in TdF, but in reality, only a handful of them are truly contenders to win the race in any given year.

[Selkie]

I was sorry to hear about the second test result. I don't know enough about the testing, etc. to make kind of conclusion.

I have to admit that I think Oscar P. is a hot thang and I was kind of rooting for him over FL (which is terrible, given the fact that I'm a native Pennsylvanian!). It's too bad that Oscar might end up winning this year's TDF because of FL's test result.