I ride with 611's for both XC and downhill. I have had some major crashes and the only complaint that I have it that sometimes they get filled with dirt at the knee (from crashing). I find them really comfy...AFTER I worked them in first. I wear moto-cross elbows for downhill though, they are really hard plastic shells that have saved me from many "skinning" disasters. A friend of mine wears Dianese elbows, likes them, but apparently there is nothing smaller than a mens' medium, and they are made big.