Testosterone

**mimitabby** · 07-31-2006, 09:08 AM

You know, i was just talking to my DH's cousin, a nurse.
She made an interesting point. who's to say that people in
competitions can't make extra testosterone?
They've shown that couch potatoes whose teams are winning
have higher testosterone levels than the guys whose teams are
losing.
What would the diff be like with a guy who assaulted the hills under
considerable duress and odds; and won?? If anything PRODUCED testosterone,
that would, i'd think?!

**Nanci** · 07-31-2006, 09:11 AM

The latest news, under a different thread, is that the testosterone appears to be from an outside source, not from Floyd himself. Apparently there is a way to differentiate.

So did it show up the day before or the day after too? How long does it last? Can it wear off after only one day??? I wish the B sample would get tested and be done with so we would know one way or the other.

**Bad JuJu** · 07-31-2006, 09:13 AM

Seems to make sense. Our bodies make lots of substances on their own, for example cholesterol--some people's bodies just naturally make more, regardless of what they ingest.

On the other hand, I read somewhere that there's some way of distinguishing between testosterone made by/in the body in question and testosterone that has been "imported," so to speak, from elsewhere. Anybody know anything about this?

**Bron** · 07-31-2006, 09:36 AM

The testosterone made in the body has a higher ratio of carbon-13 in it than testosterone made in a lab. A mass spectrometer can be used to measure the ratio of C-13 to C-12.

There is a summary of this on cyclingnews.com:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?...terone_testing

Bron

**Bron** · 07-31-2006, 09:39 AM

Originally Posted by mimitabby

You know, i was just talking to my DH's cousin, a nurse.
She made an interesting point. who's to say that people in
competitions can't make extra testosterone?
They've shown that couch potatoes whose teams are winning
have higher testosterone levels than the guys whose teams are
losing.
What would the diff be like with a guy who assaulted the hills under
considerable duress and odds; and won?? If anything PRODUCED testosterone,
that would, i'd think?!

If this was the case then wouldn´t loads of athletes be testing positive?
Just a thought.
Bron

**mimitabby** · 07-31-2006, 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by Bron

The testosterone made in the body has a higher ratio of carbon-13 in it than testosterone made in a lab. A mass spectrometer can be used to measure the ratio of C-13 to C-12.

There is a summary of this on cyclingnews.com:
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?...terone_testing

Bron

Great article, Bron, thanks. This makes it all clear to me.. At least the premise... now for the results!

**Bike Goddess** · 07-31-2006, 10:26 AM

My concern is that the lab which is doing the testing is the same one the claimed Lance had tainted blood in 1999-which he contested and won.

So, consider the source and who is doing the testing.
The next week should give us something more definitive.

**Triskeliongirl** · 07-31-2006, 10:43 AM

I started the other thread reporting the abnormal mass spec results. What concerns me now the most is that the only source of that information is L'Equipe so even if it is correct, why was it leaked to L'Equipe? With that being said though, it is a reliable test when performed correctly, and if that is indeed the result then Landis is toast. And if its true, I am done watching professional cycling. First tyler was my hero, then ivan, then floyd..... If he did it he was damn stupid is all that I can say. BUT, from the latest in velo news, there is not going to be a quick resolution to any of this. The good part about that means that nothing further is supposed to be released until due process is followed, tests are repeated, counter tests are performed, etc., all of which takes time. Whether more stuff is leaked is anyone's guess, but RELIABLE information is supposed to now be slow in coming. However, my gut no longer has a good feeling about this........

**withm** · 07-31-2006, 02:06 PM

In all the stories I've read on the subject, not one has raised this question, and has me wondering....

Day 1 - Floyd is extremely dehydrated and bonks.
Day 2 - Makes incredible comeback and takes the stage

Is it possible that the dehydration and the the cumulative effects of the brutally hard riding over 23 days actually depleted the epitestosterone stores, thus increasing the Testosterone ratio?

Everyone is looking for the "added substance" but maybe the key here is what's been expended, or depleted that altered the ratio. And if that's the case, do we see this trend in other atheletes - marathoners for example?

Inquiring minds want to know.

**mimitabby** · 07-31-2006, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by withm

In all the stories I've read on the subject, not one has raised this question, and has me wondering....

Day 1 - Floyd is extremely dehydrated and bonks.
Day 2 - Makes incredible comeback and takes the stage

Is it possible that the dehydration and the the cumulative effects of the brutally hard riding over 23 days actually depleted the epitestosterone stores, thus increasing the Testosterone ratio?

Everyone is looking for the "added substance" but maybe the key here is what's been expended, or depleted that altered the ratio. And if that's the case, do we see this trend in other atheletes - marathoners for example?

Inquiring minds want to know.

Withim i am with you here. But that leads me to another question;
If he was extremely dehydrated, why was he drinking beer?! and later whiskey? I thought i understood that drinking Alcohol makes you even more dehydrated...
We're talking about the chance of a lifetime here, and he's drinking alcoholic beverages? true, he thought he had lost the chance.. but it still kind of surprises me that he wasn't drinking "sports drinks" that night!

**Bike Goddess** · 07-31-2006, 04:39 PM

I also wondered why he was drinking. Absolutely, alcohol dehydrates you, no question about that. I still wonder why any cyclist would go for a beer after a long ride. Seems counterproductive to me!

And Landis...had some HARD liquor to boot! Only thing I can figure out is that he must have really drunk a lot of liquids after that failed stage AND also the morning of his recovery ride. We know he used up some 70 water bottles and some of that went in his body, not just over his head!

Well, I do hope for the best. I do believe him more than I believe the media. He's no fool. I just don't think he would do it as he knows as does everyone else, testing happens. Even if he hadn't won that stage he could have been tested.

**Cindyloo** · 07-31-2006, 05:16 PM

From what I read the rules state that the ratio can not be more that 4:1 and Floyd's was 11:1 so it wasn't like it was a close call I guess. The isotope tests also showed that he had synthetic testosterone in his body which would not have been made by him.

Here is the article that I read:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/31/sp...rtner=homepage

**mimitabby** · 07-31-2006, 05:20 PM

wow, the last paragraph of that article!

“The rules say that it is a violation, but if you can show that the athlete had no fault or no significant fault, there could be a mitigation of the sanction,” he said. “No matter how it got there, the athlete has to show how it got into his or her body. It could have been sabotage or contaminated dietary supplements, or something else, but they have to prove how the testosterone got there.”

**Triskeliongirl** · 07-31-2006, 06:03 PM

In view of the recent developments reported in the NY times, and in velonews, I predict that Floyd will be stripped of his title by weeks end. Its a damn shame he was that stupid...............

**alpinerabbit** · 08-01-2006, 02:11 AM

You know, he had nothing to lose. Perhaps it was a gamble.

He screwed up the stage. With his hip surgery coming up he's not sure if he could come back again. If they caught him, too bad, if they didn't, cool.

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