argh... the continuing saga of bike fit

[DebW]

As a few people have suggested, you really may just need 1-2 months of riding this bike to get used to how it feels and handles. Give it time and try not to get discouraged yet. It looks like a great bike and your position looks quite reasonable. A road bike like this is supposed to handle very differently from what you've been riding. It is supposed to handle nimbly. But before you get used to it, that translates into squirrely. After you get used to it, it feels stable but quick. Once you get to the point where the bike feels stable and you can handle it with confidence, then you may still have to tweak your riding position.

P.S. In a previous post I mentioned headset adjustment. If that is off it will affect the steering and needs to be fixed. Did the LBS ride the bike after replacing the fork? Do you have an experience road-biker friend who would give it a spin to make sure the bike is riding properly?

[Triskeliongirl]

Your position looks a lot better than in the images you sent me before you had the fork replaced. By choosing to go the route of a higher and shorter stem, vs a longer top tube, you do expect the bike to be more squirelly, but as others have said, it may take getting used to since you have been without this bike for a while. Will it ever ride like a bike with a shorter top tube and longer stem? No. But can you get comfortable riding it? Probably. I personally don't like to ride a bike with a stem less than 9 cm (with handlebars level with the saddle), which is why I ride a terry with a short top tube and 24" front wheel. But you said you don't want to go that route, so that means you have to put up with a less stable bike. What I think you still don't understand, is that there are unique problems associated with building small framed bikes, and everyone has to choose which solution offers the most advantages and least disadvantages, *to them*. For example, a small 24" front wheel allows you to get a properly sized top tube (i.e. a top tube that is proportional to the seat tube in bikes sized <52cm) so you can use a normal stem (9-14 cm), and normal seat tube angles and a normal head angle, which means you can achieve proper balance over the bike, as well as good handling. Another solution is to build the bikes with the angles needed for the desired handling, but then have toe clip overlap (this can happen with 650c as well as 700c wheels). I know a lot of women for whom this is acceptable, especially racers that always turn with their bodies, but it means needing to be extra careful when turning at low speeds. A third solution common in the wsd line is to use a steep seat tube angle to shorten the top tube, but then you need to move your saddle further back, lengthening it again, and sometimes you can't move it back far enough, so you end up with a poor position. A fourth solution is increasing the fork rake to push the front wheel away from the pedal, but then the fork trail is too high and the bike becomes too stable, i.e. its hard to get it to turn. Again, if you are always turning with your body at high speed you may not matter, but when I test ride bikes with too much trail I feel like I am driving a mach truck. So for *me* the best solution was a 24" front wheel. It seems that carrying one extra tube is a small price to pay for a bike that fits and handles well. You chose to go with a bike with a longish top tube and steep seat tube angle. That is now causing 2 problems. To get a comfortable reach they made your handlbars unusually high (aren't they at 1-2 inches higher than your saddle now?) and your stem unusually short. So you can sit on the bike now comfortably. But, when you try to ride the bike, the handling is quick due to the short high stem, and your hands hurt, perhaps due to poor balance over the bike. Do you know if they set your saddle position to put your knee over the pedal spindle, or to reach the bars. If they moved it too far forward to shorten the reach, you could have too much weight over the front of the bike, leading to hand pain. You could try pushing the saddle further back, just little bit, say 5 mm to see if it helps with the hand pain. While this will make the reach longer, it may improve your balance over the bike. This is another reason I personally like a bike with a short top tube and slack seat tube angle. It lets me get better balance over the bike, which is critical for good handling.

Hand pain means your hands are bearing too much weight, so you need to find out way. Is hand pain still the problem, or is poor handling now your biggest concern with the bike?

You asked why they didn't use the serotta fit system on you. I would guess its because they did a 'retro-fit' vs a new bike fitting. If they were going to sell you a new bike, they would have used the serotta system to determine what frames gave you the best options, but when you bring them a bike you already have, they have to just work with it. Also, be aware that especially reach is *very personal*. You can't simply pay a professional and expect that they will know what is going to work for you body, all they can do is put you in a range that lets you accomplish your stated goals. The fit for a triathelete wanting a super aero positon is not the same as a recreational rider that wants a mix of comfort and effeciency. When I was fit for my custom bike ( that was later stolen ) , I used a fit stem. The fitter determines the proper cock-pit size, i.e. sets you up with the proper saddle height and fore-aft position for effeceient pedaling, then sets the reach at something reasonable for your body and goals using a fit stem, a highly adjustable stem. Then you go ride the bike for a while and determine the exact stem length and height before the final stem is made.

If I were you, I would check the headset as recommended, put 100 miles on the bike, and then if you hands still hurt try pushing the saddle back 5mm (or if the pain is unbearable push it back sooner). But otherwise make changes slowly or you can't assess if they help or not. I would say if after 1000 miles you still weren't comfy on the bike (i.e. stable and free of hand pain) sell it and get that serotta fit before you make your next purchase. This doesn't mean you need to go custom, but you can't just buy a bike based on seat tube length, you need to look at top tube length, seat tube angle and head tube angle. Then before you buy, test ride different bikes and note the features of the geometry that work best for you, and then purchase one like that. For example, I know that I prefer bikes with 73 degree seat tube angles, 72 head tube angles, 48-49 cm top tubes, and 10-9 cm stems, with bars set level to my saddle. I only learned this after comparing measurements on bikes that worked for me in the past, vs bikes that didn't. You need to take personal responsibility for bike fitting. Yes, you can consult experts, but ultimately its your body, your choice.

[KnottedYet]

Mimi-
Serotta fits at Sammammish Valley Cycle (eastside) are $200. If you get the fit before buying a bike from them the cost of the fit is deducted from the purchase price of your new bike. They sell mainly Bianchi.

[mimitabby]

Triskelion, thanks again for your long and thoughtful response. I think what bothers me most is not the squirrellyness, but the pain. Pain on a short ride
translates into SERIOUS pain on a longer one. I will take it all with a grain of salt and ride the bike for 200 miles before i make a decision because a dozen wise women on this forum suggest that this is best.

The thing about the 2 different sized wheels is this:
Human beings of all ages, from tiny tots to giant men can ride bikes with 2 wheels both the same size. What is so different about petite women that we can't? Why must petite women (argueably the most perfectly proportioned humans ) be singled out as the only humans that MUST have a bike with 2 different sized wheels?
I find the name of the Terry Symmetry rather ironic myself.

As for toes touching the front wheel, I have probably had that with every bike i've ever owned and it's not a big problem to me. It's something you get used to. That goes right along with getting grease on my thighs and remembering not to brake too hard with the front wheel.

The biggest thing for me that i am going from a fairly comfortable hybrid with straight handlebars and crummy gearing to this great Bianchi which sings up hills and can charge across the flats but has these silly handlebars that really seem to be situated in the wrong place.

I really appreciate all the time that folks have given to this dilemma and I hope that I can return the favor often!

[SouthernBelle]

Does the tilt on her handlebars look too extreme to anybody else, or is it just me?

[farrellcollie]

My handlebars are tilted like that - bike shop did it when I took it back to see what could be done for neck pain.

[mimitabby]

Yeah, she's messed with the handlebars A LOT (the bike fit lady)