Commuting hazards

[hsmpcycle]

Tater,

Being a native Idahoan myself, I must agree that the Idaho Falls area is FULL of idiots. I must say I am very spoiled to be raised in Driggs, ID (across the Tetons from Jackson Hole) where there are a lot of riders from all over the globe, especially road.

Because there are not a lot of good roads and traffic in the summer is awful, Teton County created a HUGE bike path that connects Driggs (the middle town of the county) and Victor (the southern town). What is neat about this is that they used the old railroad line by taking off the tracks and paved it. They are going to connect Tetonia (the Northern end) hopefully soon, which means the path will be 30+ miles one way. Bear in mind, I hate paths, but in the summer the traffic on the highway, the only main road through these towns, is at a standstill. Amazingly, almost no one uses the path, because it is a pretty far distance from the road so people are unaware of it.

By the way, I am a new to the TE Forum. I have been on a bike since I was 6. My first bike was a dirt bike. I did compete in a dirt bike race when I was 8. I don't know why I did it, I just thought it would be fun. After years of riding, I turned to road bikes because I love the endurance aspect and the ability to go REALLY FAST!

[Quillfred]

With all the frustrations of multi use: cell-phone and MP3 users, skaters who like to throw a leg in front of you, loose dogs, path "hogs", cyclists who "cut you off", etc (BTW, thanks for letting me vent )....I still prefer the bike trail (rail to trail) for riding to work 9.3 miles each way. It is beautiful and circumvents steep hills for kinder ones. I still feel safer on the path too-- perferring
cyclists with cell-phones over drivers with phones. I wish cell-phone use by any vehicle operators would be illegal except in emergencies.

The 3/4 mile that I rideis on the road near the University has cyclists scattered and is chaotic. Every cyclist seems to behave differently.

However when I ride on Vashon Island, it is usually quiet enough to hear cars approach. Most are friendly and give plenty of room. I was happy to see a road sign for drivers to "share the road with bicycles"

This is an excellent discussion. I feel we are at an important cross-roads here where transportation costs are making it more imperative to create safe conditions for cyclists to ride and commute.

Getting on the soapbox---we have to make it more feasible for people to get out of their cars and onto their bikes. I have a fantasy of having bike-express lanes on or adjacent to freeways. Tax deductions for cyclists! No more roads built without a bike lane.

Along with more bike paths or trails, we need so muchpublic education for both drivers and riders. The media could be utilized so much more to encourage cycling.

[Tater]

Tater,

Being a native Idahoan myself, I must agree that the Idaho Falls area is FULL of idiots. I must say I am very spoiled to be raised in Driggs, ID (across the Tetons from Jackson Hole) where there are a lot of riders from all over the globe, especially road.

Because there are not a lot of good roads and traffic in the summer is awful, Teton County created a HUGE bike path that connects Driggs (the middle town of the county) and Victor (the southern town). What is neat about this is that they used the old railroad line by taking off the tracks and paved it. They are going to connect Tetonia (the Northern end) hopefully soon, which means the path will be 30+ miles one way. Bear in mind, I hate paths, but in the summer the traffic on the highway, the only main road through these towns, is at a standstill. Amazingly, almost no one uses the path, because it is a pretty far distance from the road so people are unaware of it.

By the way, I am a new to the TE Forum. I have been on a bike since I was 6. My first bike was a dirt bike. I did compete in a dirt bike race when I was 8. I don't know why I did it, I just thought it would be fun. After years of riding, I turned to road bikes because I love the endurance aspect and the ability to go REALLY FAST!

I lived in Driggs myself for awhile and loved biking there! It was awesome. Welcome to the forum, there are a bunch of nice ladies around here with a lot of excellent advice!

[tulip]

This is an excellent discussion. I feel we are at an important cross-roads here where transportation costs are making it more imperative to create safe conditions for cyclists to ride and commute.

Getting on the soapbox---we have to make it more feasible for people to get out of their cars and onto their bikes. I have a fantasy of having bike-express lanes on or adjacent to freeways. Tax deductions for cyclists! No more roads built without a bike lane.

Along with more bike paths or trails, we need so muchpublic education for both drivers and riders. The media could be utilized so much more to encourage cycling.

+++!

So how do we go about it? League of American Bicyclists? Local bike advocacy groups (WABA in DC)? Are there other avenues to continue this conversation, like with my representative in Congress (I actually live 1/2 block into Maryland, so I do have a representative in Congress)?

I was thinking of becoming a certified bike instructor through LAB. Any other ideas?

[Cassandra_Cain]

This being said: due to the torrential rains we had while I was out of town, the bike lane in some areas is full of sand and debris and very dangerous to ride in. Several commuters have reported it to the city and as of Fri they still hadn't done anything. Due to it being so unsafe I ride in the car lane just to the left of the white line and have had several cars try to "crowd" me back into "my" lane. I'm praying that New Mexico becomes the next state to pass the 3 foot law.

You aren't kidding! I was riding up a road with one of those marked bike lanes and large portions of it were completely awash with dirt, rocks, and of course, glass. So of course I rode on the right third of the car lane. This of course precipated lots of yelling and harassment (the usual stupidity) from motorists, but overwhelmingly from those in SUV's and other gas guzzlers.

Still I find most of the time, all of the road garbage and debris finds its way to the bike lane. IMO the answer is fewer cars, much MUCH more motorist driver education, and integrating cyclists as vehicles.

I tend to hate bike paths for a variety of reasons. For one, it basically removes bikes from the roadway which is concession to motorists. Plus I hate that it reinforces the notion that bikes and cars cannot be on the same path. Finally, they are often littered with off-leash dogs, goat-heads, skateboarding teenagers. Since I ride for fun and fitness, dodging all of these things/folks isn't my cup of tea.

However, unlike car drivers, I don't yell at cyclists on bike paths! :P

[Geonz]

Some links:

http://www.thunderheadalliance.org/index.asp
http://www.completestreets.org/
http://bikesbelong.org/index.cfm
http://bikeleague.org/ (League of American Bicyclists)
http://www.bikelib.org - League if Illinois Bicyclists (which has a lot of excellent links like the http://bikelib.org/commute/index.htm and http://bikelib.org/muniguide/index.htm , which has all kinds of information about planning to make communities more bike-friendly).

In my surfing, I also found an interesting site called. "LAB Reform" http://www.labreform.org/ which helped me understand why LAB wasn't as conspicuous among the other advocacy sites as I might have expected.

I don't think I"d mind bike paths if they were well-designed and then (gasp!) maintained and kept clean. It reminds me a little of the "separate but equal" concept. "Here, we built you a path - now go away!!!" (I do use p aths and sidewalks when they make sense for me.)
It's complicated - yes, some of the bike paths here are okay, but the mindset *about* them stinks (far as I can tell, it's only coincidence that they're okay in places, *not* because of planning). However, if the goal is to get more people on bikes, in a lot of places that could mean paths - if only because an awful lot of people seem to think it does. (Here, that is much less true. Our roads and drivers are much less hazardous-seeming than in bigger, busier places.) So, while around here I lean towards educating people and encouraging riding on the roads we have (per http://www.bicyclinglife.com/Effecti...clingNeeds.htm ), I suspect I might think differently if I were in a differnet place and dodging different traffic.

I think an educated public can help. I know in Illinois, every year monies that had been allotted to things like cycling would simply get "given back" to the treasury and put somewhere else - so it looked like things were being funded, but then the dollars went away. When the word got out and people used their voices, a much smaller amount of those monies disappeared. WIthout organizations like LIB people like me would be clueless. It seems to me that one of the best things to do is to join a local and/or national cycling support org because the more people that belong to them, the more clout they'll have when lobbying. If there are 2000 people in the whole state who belong to a bike group, whelp, that's definitely a "small interest group." If it's 10,000 it might be a movement...(50 people a day, and all that ;-) :-))

WHen I'm on the path and somebody goes by me on the bike in the road, I want to say, "YOU ROCK!!!"

[CorsairMac]

You aren't kidding! I was riding up a road with one of those marked bike lanes and large portions of it were completely awash with dirt, rocks, and of course, glass. So of course I rode on the right third of the car lane. This of course precipated lots of yelling and harassment (the usual stupidity) from motorists, but overwhelmingly from those in SUV's and other gas guzzlers.

Still I find most of the time, all of the road garbage and debris finds its way to the bike lane. IMO the answer is fewer cars, much MUCH more motorist driver education, and integrating cyclists as vehicles.

I tend to hate bike paths for a variety of reasons. For one, it basically removes bikes from the roadway which is concession to motorists. Plus I hate that it reinforces the notion that bikes and cars cannot be on the same path. Finally, they are often littered with off-leash dogs, goat-heads, skateboarding teenagers. Since I ride for fun and fitness, dodging all of these things/folks isn't my cup of tea.

However, unlike car drivers, I don't yell at cyclists on bike paths! :P

I just saw a post from you and thought "yeeehaaa another rider from Abq!" Welcome to the board!

(and now back to our regularly scheduled programme..........................:-D)

[mimitabby]

This is a great thread.
Write to your governor and/or mayor.

A while back our mayor INVITED suggestions for spending city tax dollars.
I wroteto him that an arterial that i take to work needed a bike lane.

Letters to the editor also work..

you might not get the thing you ask for, but you do get visibility.

I also attended a town meeting in Lake forest Park about the burke gilman trail.
THAT was interesting.

[Quillfred]

+++!

So how do we go about it? League of American Bicyclists? Local bike advocacy groups (WABA in DC)? Are there other avenues to continue this conversation, like with my representative in Congress (I actually live 1/2 block into Maryland, so I do have a representative in Congress)?

I was thinking of becoming a certified bike instructor through LAB. Any other ideas?

I've been giving this much thought as it is so important. I've considered situations where there has been a strong and fairly quick paradigm shift. The first thing that comes to mind is smoking and the huge changes that have taken place. Of course it's a very different situation but I think it is interesting to study how a huge shift happened and the components that facilitated the change.

Public support has to be there. When health issues became publicized the tide turned against smoking. I'm not sure what it is like where you are, but in Washington State, smoking is no longer allowed inside public places, period. I find that incredible (and wonderful).

The media greatly helped by publicizing the dangers. Here is the parallel. The media. Encouraging healthier behaviors, touting benefits, making it cool to do (ride/commute). Radio/TV ads. Billboards. PR. Even "share the road" or "start seeing bicycles" bumperstickers are good reminders.

But even with infrastructure, unless people feel safe riding it won't happen. I think there needs to be a curb on cell-phone use while driving concurrentwith bike promotion and bike path/trail construction.

I don't use side-of-the-road paths much but when I drive, it does remind me (and others I hope) to watch for other cyclist using the arterial. I agree if they are full of parked cars or other "litter" they can be confusing to drivers who might get at annoyed with cyclists over the white line.

So I will now shut up and join the Bicycle Alliance of Washington.

[Geonz]

One thing that has truly galled me is that -- very much unlike the oil embargo brouhaha in the early 70's -- the media has focused on "corporate solutions" to the fossil fuel problem. Remember all those little blurbs on saving energy by adjusting thermostats or adding insulation or... yea, that's right, RIDING A BIKE ... but the emphasis was on *changing* our habits, not finding something to else to buy so we could stay parked on our hindquarters (and not parked on a bicycle seat).
So, yea, especially in this relatively small town, I should be seeing how to make cycling a media presence... okay, as soon as I get this online course done. 24 lessons to go..... WILL STOP BEING DISTRACTED NOW>>>>>>

[nicolezoie]

I've commuted by bike regularly for 4+ years (on and off for more than 10), and have used both bike lanes and separate bike paths. While each has its benefits and its downsides, I have to say that there is a HUGE problem with public awareness of a cyclists' rights in my area. Many people just don't look beyond the tips of their noses when they're in their cars. It really bothers me. That's part of the reason I try and stay off the main roads as much as possible.

I listen to my iPod when I ride on main roads and bike paths, and I do not give a damn if it's illegal in California. Other than the iPod, I obey all safety laws and keep to the right side of the bike lane. I may not always hear an approaching cyclist, but I'm not blocking the path either. Truthfully, the wind makes more noise than my music does, and I can hardly hear anything as it is.

Sometimes the stress is awful, and the music (mainly the earphones in my ears cutting back on harsh engines) takes the edge off. On my way into work, there is one intersection where I must cross a 2 lane, 50mph road in order to make a left turn at a stoplight, and it's more than I think I can bear sometimes because I have to cut through speeding traffic, who often HONK and drive too close. Even if I have my arm sticking out indicating I'm turning, one eye ahead, one eye back. I make eye contact. If they hit me, it's on THEM, but I'll be out my LIVELYHOOD or even my LIFE...if they even stop!

But even the separate bike paths have problems; mainly the pedestrians who walk 3-4 abreast, blocking the entire lane even if you yell. I give them plenty of warning too - at least 200 feet back I shout LOUD, make eye contact, and make sure they acknowledge my call. And, even when they do, they sometimes just look at you like a deer-in-the-headlights and don't get completely out of the way.

I just needed to vent... I don't have any real solutions to this problem. I've talked with the media and tried to explain the safety side of things, but for all the good it does when not everyone watches the same news channel at 11pm. It's stupid. I've just become increasingly aggressive when I ride, and that's not a good thing because it takes away from the enjoyment of cycling, which is what got me out there in the first place. I just don't care anymore if a car is behind me at a stoplight in the bike lane and I'm blocking their path to make a right hand turn. Or, if I'm in the outside right-turn/straight lane. They ought to be able to see me in my dayglow costume, being aggressive about my position on the road. I am where I am so I can be SEEN and not IGNORED.

[donnambr]

Highly Opinionated Observations from riding my bike in very bike-friendly Portland, OR:

Dedicated multi-use paths are always more expensive than striping bike lanes, generally a lot more. They don't always go where you want to go, which is usually where people travelling in cars want to go, too. When

A well-planned MUP that goes where cyclists need to go can be a wonderful addition to a region's bicycle infrastructure.

Bike lanes are great on roads with certain traffic patterns. It really helps when your state has a law that gives cyclists the right-of-way while they are in the bike lane.

Bike lanes aren't so great when your state has a law that makes you use them if they're there. Not all bike lanes are well-planned. Not all roads or streets need bike lanes.

Bicycle facilities like curb extensions, traffic circles, speed bumps, intersections that force cars to turn but allow bikes to go straight through and other such things that help slow down automobile traffic can make neighborhoods friendlier places, and even people who don't ride bikes appreciate them. Inexperienced cyclists feel more confident about riding.

Not all streets are good places to put bicycle facilities. Not all bicycle facilities make cycling easier or are safe. Sometimes the only way to safely travel on a street or road is to act like a car. There is no excuse for cyclists who choose to remain ignorant of how to ride safely in the road.

Sometimes acting like a car is the most dangerous thing to do. That's why bicycle facilities are so helpful.

Do you notice that my statements are full of contradictions and circular logic? That's because there is no single solution. The best thing regional/city planners can do is look at other places for what works and what doesn't, listen to the experiences of their local cycling population, put in what they hope will work in their area, and be willing to admit mistakes, learn from them, and make corrections when necessary.

[tulip]

Highly Opinionated Observations from riding my bike in very bike-friendly Portland, OR:

Dedicated multi-use paths are always more expensive than striping bike lanes, generally a lot more. They don't always go where you want to go, which is usually where people travelling in cars want to go, too. When

A well-planned MUP that goes where cyclists need to go can be a wonderful addition to a region's bicycle infrastructure.

Bike lanes are great on roads with certain traffic patterns. It really helps when your state has a law that gives cyclists the right-of-way while they are in the bike lane.

Bike lanes aren't so great when your state has a law that makes you use them if they're there. Not all bike lanes are well-planned. Not all roads or streets need bike lanes.

Bicycle facilities like curb extensions, traffic circles, speed bumps, intersections that force cars to turn but allow bikes to go straight through and other such things that help slow down automobile traffic can make neighborhoods friendlier places, and even people who don't ride bikes appreciate them. Inexperienced cyclists feel more confident about riding.

Not all streets are good places to put bicycle facilities. Not all bicycle facilities make cycling easier or are safe. Sometimes the only way to safely travel on a street or road is to act like a car. There is no excuse for cyclists who choose to remain ignorant of how to ride safely in the road.

Sometimes acting like a car is the most dangerous thing to do. That's why bicycle facilities are so helpful.

Do you notice that my statements are full of contradictions and circular logic? That's because there is no single solution. The best thing regional/city planners can do is look at other places for what works and what doesn't, listen to the experiences of their local cycling population, put in what they hope will work in their area, and be willing to admit mistakes, learn from them, and make corrections when necessary.

I'm taking this to work and putting it on my bulletin board so I can read it every day! I'm a city planner. Thanks!