The Mizunos and PIs are far more built up than what I remember calling "flats" from my track days.

Is it possible that over the last 30 years standard shoe soles have become so overthick and overcushioned that even the Mizuno and PI you two mentioned are now considered "flats"?

So, it seems running in standard shoes is now more like running in high heels than I realized.

Oh, why didn't I go into biomechanical engineering? (then *I* could have been the one making turkeys run on little treadmills... I could've given them little iPods, too!) (and I could have made a gazillion dollars designing reasonable shoes)