I finally found another pair of shorts that I like as much as the Terry Bellas. I have one pair of the Double D shorts they make and while they are great for very hot/long rides, I find the chamois to be too thick for "regular" rides of 25 miles, etc. Then I bought a pair of the Triple S shorts, which caused me nothing but pain because the chamois just didn't come up far enough in the front. The S Pros solved that problem. They have a wide, elastic-free waistband that is low, below the waist, which I love, but the back is at the regular place it should be. And the material has plenty of lycra, which is a must for me.