Sue F and Cyndi are requesting clarification of my 30 mile shallow climb description. They don't trust me for some reason. Perhaps my definition of the 15 mile post lunch climb at the Siskiyou as shallow made them think that my definition of shallow was a tad different from theirs (and it wasn't as steep as the morning climb, so there!)

Any way, Veronica, do you have stats, as in hard core facts and figures I could feed them?

Kim, you've ridden both climbs plus Iron Mtn, which they both have done. What would be your description? I believe they'll need some convincing by someone other than I.