Thoughts on Target Heart Rate?

[Artista]

I've tried to ride hard a couple of times and i really screwed myself the next couple of days in terms of stress and insomnia.

This is very timely. I did a significantly more strenuous ride yesterday than I'm accustomed to. I was very tired by bedtime and should have slept like a baby. Instead, I woke up as soon as my head hit the pillow. I ended up taking a Benadryl to get to sleep but still didn't feel refreshed this morning.

I have sleeping problems off and on. On the troublesome nights, even if I can get to sleep naturally, I wake up every two hours on the dot. I've always attributed the sleeping problems to consuming too many carbs during the day. I never associated MORE exercise with insomnia. I'm going to start monitoring that association a whole lot more closely now.

[Catrin]

Yes, there is an exercise induced insomnia, and I am prone to it. I also can't drink coffee after 12, and really shouldn't have 9:00 am...

[Artista]

I've heard of exercise induced insomnia but always thought that it was caused by working out too late in the day. I finished my ride by 1:00. I never would have considered that the additional exercise that early in the day could affect my sleep.

I swear that I learn something new every day on TE

[Catrin]

I've heard of exercise induced insomnia but always thought that it was caused by working out too late in the day. I finished my ride by 1:00. I never would have considered that the additional exercise that early in the day could affect my sleep.

I swear that I learn something new every day on TE

Personally, I've found that if my exercise is above a certain intensity level or longer than a certain number of hours I always have at least a touch of insomnia - regardless of how tired/sleepy I might be before bed. I've not heard it described that way, but that is how it appears to affect me. I've always heard it the way you describe.This is one reason I don't like to have my long ride on Sunday as it increases the chance I will go to the office tired the next day. I also can't have even one beer too close to bedtime - or I've the same problem. It may be that I am just prone to that type of insomnia which makes it more likely for non-traditional triggers.

[M-Rad]

Arista,

I used to get exercise induced insomnia when I would do intervals at night. Back then the only problem I had was in falling asleep (would stay up an extra 2 hours past bedtime but that was it).
What I am going through now and you may be experiencing a touch of is adrenal stress. Your body starts spitting out cortisol at all the wrong times. Cortisol is a stress hormone. The drop in cortisol at night is what causes the crash when you fall asleep and low levels of cortisol help you stay asleep during the night.
I had a hard time believing that my ride early in the day triggered my insomnia. But it was true. If I worked out during the morning. I'd feel fine all day but by night time my cortisol would pitch up. I couldn't fall asleep and would wake up every two hours (2AM and 4AM religously). When I was in my worst state, I would wake up in middle of night with my heart racing, rapid breathing and sweating (almost like hot flashes). I woke up as if startled by something and then couldn't get back to sleep. This would go on a few days after the ride. I tested this by staying off the bike, and then my body would normalize a bit but as soon as I went out there and pushed it again, my overworked adrenals would respond with excess cortisol and I'd be right back in that vicious insomnia cycle.
Be careful. Once your cortisol/adrneals go, it is prone to mess up your other hormones as well. Make sure you are properly hydrated and are getting sufficient calories (especially when you are riding). Take your recovery seriously. If you feel tired, don't push it. It will cause your adrenals to work very hard to overcome the fatigue it feels in the face of additional stress from training.
I've gotten used to taking my resting morning HR. If it is 5 points above normal, I either stay off the bike or scale my ride way back. The times I didn't adhere to this rule, I noticed I suffered insomnia that night.
Hope that makes sense.

[Catrin]

Some of this is sounding familiar M-Rad...Once I DO get to sleep on those harder exercise days, if I do, then it is up every 2-3 hours. I now refer to it as my "sleep breaks" I have to get up at 4:30 regardless. This doesn't help.

[M-Rad]

Catrin,

Just noticed you are on a SI lady gel flow. How do you like it? I went saddle shopping all weekend - came up empty.

Worst part is I got confusing advice from two different bike shops. Some say your sit bones should be on the widest part of the saddle. Another shop (more racer orientated said you should be sitting in the nose of the saddle right before it widens. Selle SMP and fizik models seem to lean towards this b/c their saddles actually have a bit of a craddle that prevents you from sliding back to the furtherest part of the saddle. Guy from bike shop #1 said, yeah that's great if you are riding TT or triathoons but on long rides it would kill you.

I'm now waiting for LBS#3 to get a SI SLR lady in so I can test it.

Do you like your saddle? How long are your longest rides?

[Catrin]

Catrin,

Just noticed you are on a SI lady gel flow. How do you like it? I went saddle shopping all weekend - came up empty.

Worst part is I got confusing advice from two different bike shops. Some say your sit bones should be on the widest part of the saddle. Another shop (more racer orientated said you should be sitting in the nose of the saddle right before it widens. Selle SMP and fizik models seem to lean towards this b/c their saddles actually have a bit of a craddle that prevents you from sliding back to the furtherest part of the saddle. Guy from bike shop #1 said, yeah that's great if you are riding TT or triathoons but on long rides it would kill you.

I'm now waiting for LBS#3 to get a SI SLR lady in so I can test it.

Do you like your saddle? How long are your longest rides?

I think the SI SLR Lady is different from the SI Lady (LDY), though I could well be mistaken. I get confused by all of the similar names that Selle Italia seems to have. I had quite the saddle journey before finding this one, starting with Brooks. I love my SI Lady, and the furthest I've ridden on it is 75 miles.

One thing to keep in mind is I've a VERY upright riding position due to arthritis in my hands not allowing me to use road bars. I ride 2-inch riser bars with grips, and I can ride for hours without hand pain or saddle issues. I suspect that my contact with the saddle is quite different than yours as you likely have road bars. I also have this same saddle on my mountain bike.

Good luck on your search!

[bathedinshadow]

I didn't read all of these responses, so forgive me if I'm repeating some things. But my friend actually works in the athletic department as a sort of expert on these very things. He does all the testing on the athletes to get there stats Vo2 max, max HR, body fat, etc.

The calculation that is typically used is 220 - your age. That is a VERY generic calculation. The only way to truly determine your Max HR is to go to an expert and literally push yourself to that point. Don't do this on your own, it can be dangerous and it's extremely uncomfortable! According to that calculation, my Max HR is 188. I know for a fact that it's higher as I can hit 188 and feel fine, if tired. I had mine tested by my friend 2 years ago and it was 199. I'd hazard to guess it's about the same now as I still exercise and peak the same way. My ex has a crazy high Max HR. In fact. At my age (32), it was reaching 203 at it's peak regularly. We ended up going to a doctor and having an EKG to make sure nothing was wrong. Everything was fine.

People are just different. My resting HR is usually about 48. When I'm extremely relaxed, it's gone down as low as 42. But when I work out, it's usually higher than everybody else. It's just the way my body works. There is no "calculation" that can accurately assess this.

[nuliajuk]

I used to have a swim coach who also had a masters degree in kinesiology, and he advised his triathlete clients to use nasal breathing as a guideline to staying below lactate threshold. The theory is that, barring any sinus or nose cartilage problems, the point at which you have to start breathing with your mouth is usually the approximate point at which you transition from aerobic to anaerobic effort. It seems to work for most people, but if you're not used to breathing through your nose while exercising, it can seem hard to get enough air at first.

So, give that a try and see if it works. Also, heart rate monitors work better with some sort of liquid between the sensor and your skin. Nasal lubricating gel works great, but even spit will do.

(I guess this explains why I was always overtrained and tired when I was in my 20s - I had excess cartilage in my nose and couldn't breath through my nostrils even at rest.)

[bathedinshadow]

Yes, supposedly breathing through your nose also eliminates exercise induced headaches as well! Not that that's an issue, but just another advantage.