Women in Sci-Fi and Fantasy/Game of Thrones

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I read the first three of Martin's books when I was down with my back six years ago. Not uplifting material to someone when they cannot walk! Every time I thought something was going right, that one character had a chance at a better life, it was crushed in the most horrible manner imaginable. As a result, I found the books depressing, even if interesting and well wrtten.

I like Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series. He died before he could finish it but found Brian Sanderson to finish the books, spent his last days going over plots with his wife so fans would have closure. His books have powerful men and women in them, strong women with normal character flaws, same with men. I honestly think Jordan had a gift with developing characters - believable characters, and all memorable.

Happy to check out some of the other books mentioned in this thread. I love fantasy, am happy to escape life for a few chapters! My 15 year old niece is the same, we trade books back and forth (I warned her away from George Martin for now). Anybody have more suggestions?

[Catrin]

I love fantasy, science fiction is good but I prefer a well written fantasy series. Pratchett is wonderful, CJ Cherryh rocks. I used to like Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time series until it just went on too long...I will likely try it again at some point and perhaps start at the beginning. Mercedes Lackey is indeed a very guilty pleasure, and indeed I am reading some of her works from the 80s that I hadn't read before.

I've read most of Game of Thrones and have enjoyed it, but yeah, I wouldn't give his books to a 15 year old. I really don't understand why they call him the "American Tolkien" while I have enjoyed what I've read so far I disagree.

I like "speculative fiction", whatever they are calling that genre these days. It is still fantasy (what if WW2 had been won by the other side sort of thing). I especially like Judith Tarr and Harry Turtledove, though I haven't read either of them for some time. Stephen Hunt has also done some good writing, his books are a mixture of alternative history, steampunk and sorcery.

[Veronica]

Catrin you ought to check out the Leviathian series by Scott Westerfield then. It's aimed at young adults and a few of my students have read it. I've really enjoyed it and actually pre ordered the last book, something I never do.

Veronica

[Irulan]

I really don't understand why they call him the "American Tolkien" while I have enjoyed what I've read so far I disagree.

I had this discussion with a friend of mine, who is a huge proponent of respecting women as partners and teaches such with his personal work. CB said, "It's like Tolkien without the magic" and my response was, " At least the few women in LOTR didn't get smacked around all the time". Funny, he hadn't considered it in that light before.

[lph]

I'm curious if there's anyone else here who doesn't care much for Tolkien. I mean - he was a visionary, he created a wonderful, incredibly detailed world and history and people and language and all, but the writing to me is boring, flat and very dated. (Besides there being almost no women in it at all.) When people rave about LOTR I tend to say I'd love it if only he'd found a better writer I wonder if it's because I read a lot of other fantasy before reading Tolkine, so by the time I got to reading "the original", as it were, it sounded like a cliche.

My earliest and strongest fantasy reading experience was the Narnia books. I still love them

Dan Simmons' Hyperion books are also very good. But very different, a bit unsettling in their horror approach.

Pardon me for semi-hijacking the thread away from women in fantasy. I just don't get to talk about my favourite genre very much!

[Irulan]

I'm curious if there's anyone else here who doesn't care much for Tolkien. I mean - he was a visionary, he created a wonderful, incredibly detailed world and history and people and language and all, but the writing to me is boring, flat and very dated. (Besides there being almost no women in it at all.) When people rave about LOTR I tend to say I'd love it if only he'd found a better writer I wonder if it's because I read a lot of other fantasy before reading Tolkine, so by the time I got to reading "the original", as it were, it sounded like a cliche.

My earliest and strongest fantasy reading experience was the Narnia books. I still love them

Dan Simmons' Hyperion books are also very good. But very different, a bit unsettling in their horror approach.

Pardon me for semi-hijacking the thread away from women in fantasy. I just don't get to talk about my favourite genre very much!

I agree with you about Tolkien being dated, but as a great intro to Fantasy for young adults, it's awesome. And as the originator of this thread, author suggestions and comments are welcome. Anyone else on Goodreads, btw?

[Cataboo]

I read the first three of Martin's books when I was down with my back six years ago. Not uplifting material to someone when they cannot walk! Every time I thought something was going right, that one character had a chance at a better life, it was crushed in the most horrible manner imaginable. As a result, I found the books depressing, even if interesting and well wrtten.

i haven't read more than a few chapters of the first book yet, but from your description it sounds a lot like Stephen R. Donaldson's Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, the unbeliever... Also a rape in one of those books, but the main character, who was so filled with self loathing to begin with, continued to loath himself even more. There were other strong female characters in the books from what I remember.

And from the first few chapters of Martin's book - I'm not sure I see a resemblence to Tolkein.

For old sci-fi, I somewhat expect odd treatment of women - a lot of the older sci fi authors sexed up their stories so that they could sell them to playboy, because well... it paid. The Catteni or Freedom series by Anne McCaffrey grew out of a short story (The Thorns of Barevi) that she wrote as an attempt for the erotica market. It does have a "forced rape" that ends up being enjoyed in the original short story, I can't remember if she kept that in the book series that she eventually wrote.

Anyone read any James H. Schmitz books? He was a writer in the 40s/50's that tended to have strong female heroines in the era of space operas. For the time period & compared to most others they were well done.

[Cataboo]

I'm curious if there's anyone else here who doesn't care much for Tolkien. I mean - he was a visionary, he created a wonderful, incredibly detailed world and history and people and language and all, but the writing to me is boring, flat and very dated. (Besides there being almost no women in it at all.) When people rave about LOTR I tend to say I'd love it if only he'd found a better writer I wonder if it's because I read a lot of other fantasy before reading Tolkine, so by the time I got to reading "the original", as it were, it sounded like a cliche.

My earliest and strongest fantasy reading experience was the Narnia books. I still love them

Dan Simmons' Hyperion books are also very good. But very different, a bit unsettling in their horror approach.

Pardon me for semi-hijacking the thread away from women in fantasy. I just don't get to talk about my favourite genre very much!

I loved the Chronicles of Narnia. I really liked the Hobbit... Lord of the Rings, I liked... but I admit to finding some of the battle scenes tedious.

[Catrin]

I agree with you about Tolkien being dated, but as a great intro to Fantasy for young adults, it's awesome. And as the originator of this thread, author suggestions and comments are welcome. Anyone else on Goodreads, btw?

I guess it is just personal regarding Tolkien, he is my favorite in the entire genre, bar none. Recently found a collection of his unfinished short stories and found them delightful

It is great to read about other suggested authors and series, there is a lot out there. I will carefully avoid mentioning my love of mysteries outside of just mentioning it

[OakLeaf]

I can't speak of Tolkien with any semblance of objectivity, because the Lord of the Rings was what I had at a very vulnerable and troubled time in my life. That said, as a lover of language, his creation of languages remains amazing to me - even though I still find it odd that he had the Rohirrim speak Anglo-Saxon rather than creating a language for them too. Apparently they were the "hook" that tied his academic work (which, as you probably know, he was a renowned scholar as well) to his own inner fantasy life.



But nobody's mentioned Ursula LeGuin yet??? Probably the first writer to bring feminism into the mainstream of FSF? (Okay, I totally had not heard of The Wild Girls before I just now checked out her website, and it's on my to-read list now...)

[lph]

I love Ursula leGuin! I was just going to shut up a little Great writing.

[Crankin]

OK, just as I thought...
I'm weird in my reading tastes.

[Catrin]

OK, just as I thought...
I'm weird in my reading tastes.

I doubt that, we are just an eclectic group of women with definate reading tastes - regardless of which genre we prefer

[Cataboo]

OK, just as I thought...
I'm weird in my reading tastes.

Prob not. I just think most people who dislike scifi/fantasy didn't open this thread based on the title. It's kinda like opening the paddling pics thread to post... "is it just me, or am I the only one who doesn't care for paddling?"

[Titania]

I love Sci-Fi and Fantasy both. Both genres definitely have their fair share of crap, though.

I don't find George R.R. Martin's treatment of women disturbing, personally. There are several strong female characters, and I think the tone fits the medieval setting. Let's face it, women weren't worth anything in the eyes of men back in those days. To have a medieval setting and have some sort of egalitarian social structure would seem fairly odd to me.

If you're looking for a fantastic author who is also a devoted feminist, look no further than Sherri S. Tepper. Her book "The Gate to Women's Country" is both one of the most disturbing and uplifting fantasy books I've ever read.

Another sci-fi writer with strong female characters is Ann Aguirre.

Werewolf/vampire/undead, etc modern fantasy books are my guilty pleasure. I could go on and on about some of the authors I enjoy in that genre.