Car shopping soon...advice?

[Irulan]

Here's conditions that you really shouldn't go out in. Plus, not having snow tires or skills....

(Portland OR)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMzeiMJQrvk

[SadieKate]

Irulan's post summed all everything very well and as others said, skills and common sense are the number 1 issue but technology can provide such additional safety it should be used when possible.

My only issue is all the comments about Suby gas mileage. Yes, the older ones might having been lacking in this dept but I have a 2010 Outback with the revised automatic Lineartronic™ CVT 4-cylinder Boxer engine. In September we drove about 2,000 miles on a trip with long and short distance hops. The car was loaded to the max with a wide cargo box and we ran the air conditioning most of the time (on max whenever we were on dirt roads). Just as we arrived back at home, the average mpg dropped below 31. If I go through a full tank doing nothing but super short errands I'll still see 23 mpg.

For a tall heavy car with AWD that takes me skiing, fishing, hunting, and exploring on dirt roads (sometimes aptly named Nasty Flat Rd), I'll take it. It's better than my hubby's smaller Audi A4 wagon got. Yeah, it doesn't get 40 mpg, but, frankly, those cars wouldn't be the right tool for the jobs required by my lifestyle anyway. Like Irulan, I need ground clearance just to get out of my driveway at times (Plow? What's a plow?).

We're also on our 6th car with AWD (4 Subies, 1 Audi, 1 Mazda) and have never, ever, ever, had any additional cost with maintaining AWD. It only adds weight which will show in the mileage and potential tire wear but all cars need tire alignment maintenance anyway.

[SadieKate]

Snow tires. The new technology for studless tires made of super sticky winter rubber is amazing. The blizzaks we run on all cars are amazing; we'll never go back to studs. "All-weather" is NOT the same. Good winter tires are a worthwhile investment even though the first purchase will make you choke.

Amen.

I am sooo past ready for studs to be outlawed.

Not only the road damage but damage to our cars from flying studs off other cars.

[Jolt]

SadieKate--

LOL about Nasty Flat Road!! As far as the gas mileage you get with your Subaru, that's not too bad, and I'd be looking at the Impreza which probably gets a couple more mpg being smaller. That Suzuki SX4 somebody mentioned looks like another good thing to check out.

Does anyone know anything about the Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe? I know they were based on the Corolla but had an AWD option.

[jessmarimba]

Tulip - born and raised! Lived there til '02 and again from '06-'09. I go back about once a month since I left my SO there and my company's headquarters are in Innsbrook. I just work out of that office.

Jolt - good luck, I think we've inundated you with info! I'm holding off on getting a different car for now but I'll try and remember to pull this thread up next year when it's my turn.

[SadieKate]

SadieKate--

LOL about Nasty Flat Road!! As far as the gas mileage you get with your Subaru, that's not too bad, and I'd be looking at the Impreza which probably gets a couple more mpg being smaller. That Suzuki SX4 somebody mentioned looks like another good thing to check out.

If I had decided to go with a smaller car, I'd be all over the Impreza.

[Irulan]

.

Does anyone know anything about the Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe? I know they were based on the Corolla but had an AWD option.

I looked very closely at the Matrix. In fact I ran a spread sheet comparing the Mazda 3 and the Matrix, which both come with an AWD option.

I decided on the Mazda3 FWD with traction control. Here's why:

The Mazda offers much more bang for the buck. At the time I was looking the Matrix's trim level was more or less utilitarian and I wanted nicer trim. I chose the Mazda3 GT package, full leather, rain sensor wipers, iPod hook up, five speed, sunroof, upgrade stereo, heated seats, traction control etc and it was still less than the top Matrix package. Plus, the Toyota dealer was really arrogant: I don't have to deal with you, too many people want this car. This was before the economy tanked of course. I opted out of AWD mainly for mileage reasons since we also have a 4X4

Arrogant Toyota salesman or the Mazda guy who actually brought the to me at my house to test drive....that will certainly weight a sale don't you think? Plus I really wanted heated seats....

[Jolt]

Does anyone know anything about the Suzuki Aerio? I believe that's what the SX4 replaced...was just looking at used cars and the Aerios are the ones that will be in my price range. They have the AWD option which is why I am looking at them.

[zoom-zoom]

Snow tires. The new technology for studless tires made of super sticky winter rubber is amazing. The blizzaks we run on all cars are amazing; we'll never go back to studs. "All-weather" is NOT the same. Good winter tires are a worthwhile investment even though the first purchase will make you choke.

My Mazda 3 is, BY FAR the highest HP (by almost 40%), highest torque car I have ever had...but the first car I've ever had with true snow tires for Winter (Blizzaks). It is simply amazing how well it handles in snow. I have on occasion driven AWD (my MIL's Rav 4) with "all-season" tires and traction control and it couldn't begin to compare. "All season" really means all-season-if-you-live-where-it-doesn't-get-below-freezing.

[Irulan]

My Mazda 3 is, BY FAR the highest HP (by almost 40%), highest torque car I have ever had...but the first car I've ever had with true snow tires for Winter (Blizzaks). It is simply amazing how well it handles in snow. I have on occasion driven AWD (my MIL's Rav 4) with "all-season" tires and traction control and it couldn't begin to compare. "All season" really means all-season-if-you-live-where-it-doesn't-get-below-freezing.

the only time I run into trouble is if the snow is so deep that I am highsiding in it -

[zoom-zoom]

the only time I run into trouble is if the snow is so deep that I am highsiding in it -

Ha, a Winter or two ago we had heavy snow when we were an hour away for a holiday party (inland where they don't get near the lake-effect mess that we do). On the way home the snow on the interstate was deep and sorta like concrete. My car was essentially pushing the snow along...but I still had good traction. That was one of the few times where I wish my car had a couple of inches more clearance.

[OakLeaf]

The Prius wouldn't climb my hill this afternoon.

We'd been out just once before since the snowfall - just enough to compact the snow a little. Too cold for ice. Our hill is steep, but not THAT steep - around 15%.

I couldn't make a hard run because there was a stray dog in the lane. I got halfway up and the wheels started spinning. The little traction control icon on the dashboard was cute. Got my husband to shoo the dog away, backed down to the bottom of the hill, got a good run, tried again ... wheels started spinning halfway up.

My husband tried (he of the excellent slick surface driving skills). No joy. He tried pushing while I drove. No joy. I dug up an old sand pile and put some under the front wheels. They still spun. Finally I put a good amount of sand over about a 20-foot length of the wheel tracks, he backed down the hill and got another good run, finally made it up.

If we were staying here much longer, we'd get another Subaru.

[GLC1968]

Does anyone know anything about the Toyota Matrix/Pontiac Vibe? I know they were based on the Corolla but had an AWD option.

We have a 2005 Matrix but opted against the AWD because we lived in NC at the time we bought it. Honestly, we also looked at the Vibe but it felt 'cheap' to us and we kind of felt the same way about the Mazda. Again, this was in 2005, so I have no idea what either of those cars are like now. I like a solid feeling car and I'm not one for extras. I'm of the belief that the more features your car has, the more things that can break. This, of course, coming from someone who was happily driving a Jeep CJ-7 as my first car and never balked at having to get out of the car to lock the hubs in order to run 4 wheel drive.

About my history - I have lived all over this county in all types of conditions. When I learned to drive, it was in the snow before there was front wheel drive. I've owned 4WD, AWD, FrontWD and rearWD cars and driven all of them in the snow and ice. First of all, not all FWD is created equal. And AWD isn't going to help you if it doesn't have the necessary clearance. Thirdly, a reasonably heavy front wheel drive car might be all you'll ever need unless you move to the mountains or the country where plowing is sporatic at best. Even then, chains rock.

So, our Matrix is easily one of the best cars I've ever owned (and I've owned a lot). Ours now has 108K miles on it and it runs wonderfully. When we moved out here, I laughed at the local panic when snow was in the forecast. The first winter we lived here, we got blasted - storm after storm with freeze, melt, freeze for about a week. When there are not enough plows to go around, it creates a disaster area. Think 8" frozen solid ice ruts in the road! Add a bunch of people who have no idea how to drive in winter conditions and plenty of steep hills you get a real mess. I put chains on our Matrix (something I'd never needed in previous places I'd lived including Maine, Wisconsin, Michigan, Massachusetts, and the Pocono mountains). I was so incredibly impressed with how the Matrix handled the conditions with those chains on it. It was amazing! The best part was that when the snow was gone, the chains came off and I got my good mileage back.

I did drive a 2010 Matrix while ours was in for routine maintneance and it sucked. Visibilty was poor, the inside felt 'plasticky', and handling was lousy. If you do still consider a Matrix, opt for an older one. The new ones are lacking in my opinion.

That said, I am eyeing the new Outbacks. We have absolutely no need for a new car at all, but when we are ready, we may consider one. I'm also disappointed in the MPG ratings, but perhaps by then, they'll have improved them even further.

[emily_in_nc]

Just to post a contrarian opinion on the much-beloved Subaru. I had a 2001 Forester I bought new. My first Sube, and I guess I just got unlucky since so many here have had much better experiences. It was great until three years old; then I had repeated problems with the Check Engine light that resulted in multiple and costly repairs. At age 4, the transmission started going out, and since Subaru will only replace, not repair, transmissions, that was going to be a VERY costly repair. At the time I was going through all this, my eyes were opened wide when I googled "Subaru Check Engine light" and "Subaru transmission problems". I was NOT alone. So, the car was only four years old, though I did drive it a lot of miles - had 80K on it. Only got $7K for it b/c of the transmission problem when I traded it in.

I traded it in in 2004 on a Honda Element and have never had a minute's trouble with this vehicle. Sitting at 124K miles now. Gas mileage is very similar to the Forester (both AWD), and with the back seats removed, it carries a LOT more cargo (four bikes, or two bikes, luggage, and a dog crate), or a huge load to Goodwill or the dump. Was sorry to read that it is being discontinued.

[Crankin]

I also had a horrible experience with a Subaru. Granted, it was a long time ago, but I had problem after mechanical problem. I had the car for 15 months, traded it for a Volvo station wagon, which I had for almost 10 years.