Biking/Running Training Program Do's and Don'ts (Suggestions Please)

[limewave]

It's that time of year, time to start planning for races and training plans for 2011. I'm doing 6 A & B races next year (alternating between bike & running):

3/27 CX Race, 35 miles (A race)
5/14 25k Run (B)
7/09 CX Race, 35 miles (C or B)
9/17 1/2 Marathon (B)
10/9 Chicago Marathon (A)
11/5 CX 30 mile race (A)

I have a friend that put together an excellent running program for me, with the goal of finishing the marathon in 3:55:00. It's a 3x a week program that does take into account training for the bike.

The schedule builds for 3 weeks then has a recovery week. Now, the question is, do I follow the same training pattern for my biking (i.e. build for the same weeks as the running and have the same recovery week) OR do I stagger so that the recovery weeks are different?

This is the first time I've put together a training program like this, so any tips or suggestions would be fantastic! Thank you!

[Tri Girl]

based on what I know of training schedules (well, having developed my own IM training- but that's different, I know), maybe make the peak bike week the week after the peak run week so you're recovering from the run and can put that much extra into the bike. Then maybe make that next week a little step back week from both.
IDK... I might be totally off here. Your race schedule looks great, tho. Good luck with your goals for next year. LOVE that you have a solid marathon training plan with only 3 days a week!

[limewave]

based on what I know of training schedules (well, having developed my own IM training- but that's different, I know), maybe make the peak bike week the week after the peak run week so you're recovering from the run and can put that much extra into the bike. Then maybe make that next week a little step back week from both.
IDK... I might be totally off here. Your race schedule looks great, tho. Good luck with your goals for next year. LOVE that you have a solid marathon training plan with only 3 days a week!

I'm going to give that a try and see how it goes. Thank you!

[roadie gal]

I'm not an expert by any means, but...

My understanding of the recovery week is to let your body recover from the buildup of the previous weeks. So it would be counterproductive to make your recovery week from one sport your hard week for the other. Your body never gets to rest and recover that way. You want to recover from both of them at the same time.

You should probably not do your long bike and run on the same DAYS. Those are best alternated. But the recovery week is for both sports at the same time.

[Tri Girl]

I was kinda thinking the same thing, roadie gal. Just wasn't sure if you should have a hard week with both the run and the bike.
Of course, I'm bringing my own issues into it and I know that when I can't peak with two sports at once (hence why I had to develop my own IM training program).
Maybe peak run, recovery the next week, peak with cycling then recovery the next week???

[limewave]

I'm hoping with the staggered race schedule that I won't need to peak for both at once. I want to keep building fitness for both sports, but I'll focus on running for 2 months before a big race then switch to biking for the next 2 month period before a cx race.

Make sense?

[Tri Girl]

that makes perfect sense!!!

[roadie gal]

That makes sense.

[Pika]

just to be devils advocate here...the whole 3 weeks build or 3 month periodization followed with recovery has never made any sense to me. Our bodies are not on a time schedule and these just seem to be arbitrary - why not put together a plan with a specific goal and then test yourself and see if you are achieving it- ie are you riding more watts at a specific heart rate- if you are achieving your goal ( more watts at a specific hr for example) don't change anything keep doing what you are doing until you are not achieving what you want- then change it- ie add rest or focus on another goal.
an easy way to do this is a step test
if you have a trainer that measures watts - perfect
start at a 100 watts every 3 min increase wattage until you are 80% max.At the end of every 3 minute period- look at your heart rate.
If your training plan is working you should be riding more watts at a lower heart rate- if you are fatigued or need a change of plan you won't see a change or it will go in the wrong direction
If you don't have a wattage trainer ou can still do these step tests- you just have to watch your cadence more carefully- start in your easiest gear at a certain cadence- for the test to be reliable you need to to it the same every time - same cadence, same tire pressure, same gear..well you see what I mean.
I guess what I am trying to say is why not base your training progam on something measurable rather than some arbitrary # of weeks building then resting- you are an individual- make your training program fit you not the other way around.
(btw I know this is a huge change of thinking for most people but then again lots of people think that lactic acid build up is why they fatigue ( not true - so such thing as lactic acid..but that is a whole other thread)

Whatever your plan - be sure to have fun and good luck!

[kacie tri-ing]

True about the time schedule Pika, but I do think that if you stress your body with an increasing amount of training, you have to step back to gain the benefits. Your body improves in the recovery period IF You stressed it appropriately while building....I can't imagine only building without stepping back at some point...your body cries out for a break after an increase in volume and/or intensity...or mine does anyway

[Catrin]

.....My understanding of the recovery week is to let your body recover from the buildup of the previous weeks. So it would be counterproductive to make your recovery week from one sport your hard week for the other. Your body never gets to rest and recover that way. You want to recover from both of them at the same time.

As a beginner I can't advise on training...

However, I CAN advise on this - just make sure you get enough recovery in so your body can rest and recover. I tried doing different things on different days - thus my poor legs rarely got a real rest. It took that for quite some time - but then pulled both hamstring and quad AND developed tendinitis in the same leg all at the same time. I am still hearing from my physical therapist how he has not seen this before. And my doctor. And my trainer. This is why I got such odd symptoms that had Knotted convinced I had a f***ed up disc. Our bodies will force us to rest if'en we don't allow it to

I know you are much wiser than I, but since the topic came up I thought I would mention it - don't be like me

[Pika]

oh don't get me wrong! It is definitely about the recovery- I just don't buy into the arbitrary 3 week period- definitely rest! but when you need it- you may need it in a week or maybe 5 weeks- my point is that if you had a way to measure your performance regularly like a simple step test you can see when you really need the rest and recovery and when you can continue to build.

[smurfalicious]

Oh, this is case for Training Peaks, for sure! It's $20 a month and totally worth every penny. You put in your races and dates, how many hours you can train a week, what your strengths are, etc and it spits out a training plan. It was wonderful to have during triathlon season, especially when I had to figure out how to squeeze in an A priority bike race in the mix. Right before my first tri. Check it out, they even offer a free training log if the paid plan isn't your thing. You can use it to lay out the workouts you have planned too: www.trainingpeaks.com

On a side note, I got to that A race and broke down in tears on the phone with my coach/best friend. I was so pooped from work, life and training that I couldn't decide to enter and crying seemed a logical solution. Went home, took a nap, then rode out to the brewery for lunch, came back and watched the race with friends. Sometimes, you need priorities.

[kacie tri-ing]

oh don't get me wrong! It is definitely about the recovery- I just don't buy into the arbitrary 3 week period- definitely rest! but when you need it- you may need it in a week or maybe 5 weeks- my point is that if you had a way to measure your performance regularly like a simple step test you can see when you really need the rest and recovery and when you can continue to build.

OK! That makes sense. I was wondering how you trained for IMC without any recovery periods! I would not have made it

Also, those recovery periods are not always when you perfectly plan them! Sometimes your body decides when it is time to back off! It will tell you if you listen!