Rollers and momentum

[Catrin]

I've read the other threads on hill climbing, but I just can't seem to beat this problem that I have. We don't have long hills around here, but we do have short and quite steep ones. I have this problem with loosing my momentum rather early and then wind up spinning/grinding up the hill at 6mph - though perhaps that isn't so bad.

Next weekend I am going on a ride in the southern part of the state - THAT ride has a hill with a 1.5 mile climb. I know that hills are at least as much mental as they are physical.

Any tips on how I can maintain my momentum longer? I suspect that I am gearing down too soon - just trying to work this out in my head.

[lph]

I think the key is trying to keep roughly the same cadence, which is hardest when the terrain changes from flat-out can't-pedal downhill to abrupt steep uphill. I would try to maximize my speed downhill, pedalling if possible (with resistance, spinning without resistance just makes me unsteady), and as soon as my speed drops a little try to downshift and find the right gearing for that speed, the next moment downshift a bit more to that right gearing, etc until you're either at the top of the hill or on your lowest gear.

I'm trying to imagine it and I think that coming fast into a steep hill I maybe downshift in 3 or 4 separate "sessions", several gears at a time, if that makes sense, before ending up on my smallest grinder gears. It comes with practice, judging at which speed you can use which gear, or rather - how much slowing down needs to generate how much downshifting.

I would think it helps to practice on the same hill or the same route, and try out several strategies. Downshifting too much is rarely a problem, you can just shift up a bit, but downshifting too little will have you struggling to shift again under pressure.

Oh, and long hills really are all about just grinding along, all momentum lost... Sing to yourself, stand a little, sit a little, practice reaching for your water bottle, don't worry about speed :-)

[Grog]

I have this problem with loosing my momentum rather early and then wind up spinning/grinding up the hill at 6mph - though perhaps that isn't so bad.

Indeed it doesn't seem bad to me.

Any tips on how I can maintain my momentum longer? I suspect that I am gearing down too soon - just trying to work this out in my head.

For what it's worth, I tend to pedal harder on the downhills if I see an uphill ahead. Once I'm on the uphill, I try to ease the pedaling and change gear just a second before I need to do it. Two seconds if I need to switch to another chainring. Practice allows me to do this pretty seamlessly now so to avoid losing momentum. On a 2-km hill however momentum becomes pretty irrelevant: it will help you for the first 300 meters and then you're on your own. A mantra will be more useful than momentum at that stage.

[Becky]

For what it's worth, I tend to pedal harder on the downhills if I see an uphill ahead. Once I'm on the uphill, I try to ease the pedaling and change gear just a second before I need to do it. Two seconds if I need to switch to another chainring. Practice allows me to do this pretty seamlessly now so to avoid losing momentum. On a 2-km hill however momentum becomes pretty irrelevant: it will help you for the first 300 meters and then you're on your own. A mantra will be more useful than momentum at that stage.

This is pretty much what I do. It's taken me a long time to get comfortable with it. Keep practicing, and the technique will come. For short rolly hills, you may be able to gain enough momentum on the downhill to power up the other side without downshifting or by downshifting just a cog or two.

I spent a winter using the "Hillacious" Spinervals video (the one with the Great Harvest Bread Co. team), and the techniques that I learned from it have really had a positive impact on my climbing ability. If you're a trainer user, this might be an option....

[malkin]

There's a stop sign at the bottom of the beginning of the big hill on my commute.

I've got a granny gear, and I know how to use it.

[tulip]

Like Grog and Becky said: don't coast down the hill--there's always an up on the other side of the down. Pedal (in harder gears) down and shift as you need to going up the other side. It will take practice.

[Catrin]

Thanks for all of the advice, and I will try to remember this during this week when I head back out on the bike. I WOULD like to practice what hills I can before next Saturday.

I have tried to pedal downhill, but found that it was just free-wheeling and just odd - however I didn't try to shift into a harder front gear.

So what I am hearing is that I need to practice more, of course, and resist the temptation to coast downhill. I LIKE coasting downhill - it is fun However I need a different approach because this isn't helping me much in getting up the next hill. I do NOT want to wind up walking that 1.5 mile hill next Sat Not that there is anything wrong with walking up a hill, just saying...

[indysteel]

You will develop a better feel for it with practice. While I know there are some elevation changes in the area where you ride, it's still relatively flat. Once you start doing some rides south of Indy, you'll get a lot more practice with it.

I'd also say that momentum only gets you so far in Indiana, as I wouldn't describe the terrain as rolling. Do the second day of the Horsey Hundred in Kentucky, and you'll understand the difference. Here, the hills aren't as constant and they can be abrupt and steep, so while you may have a bit of momentum going into the hill, it is unlikely to be enough to get to the top. In fact, it may barely get you up halfway. I actually tend to rely less on momentum with some of these steeper hills and more on choosing a gear at the outset that will allow me to set a sustainable pace up the hill. I do not keep the same cadence on those hills that I use on the flats. I would blow up if I tried to do that. Rather, I get in a relatively easy gear, take a deep breath and then just pace myself up, susatining a good balance between aerobic and power outputs.

[Catrin]

You will develop a better feel for it with practice. While I know there are some elevation changes in the area where you ride, it's still relatively flat. Once you start doing some rides south of Indy, you'll get a lot more practice with it. ......... I actually tend to rely less on momentum with some of these steeper hills and more on choosing a gear at the outset that will allow me to set a sustainable pace up the hill. I do not keep the same cadence on those hills that I use on the flats. I would blow up if I tried to do that. Rather, I get in a relatively easy gear, take a deep breath and then just pace myself up, sustaining a good balance between aerobic and power outputs.

Indy - Thanks for this, it helps. I just got in from a light 20 mile ride - and tried to pay closer attention to my shifting on the steep hills along the way. It is kind of interesting how they come, perfectly flat ground then there is this short hill that is so steep that I wonder if I will make it to the top - and thankfully I always do. It doesn't seem to make all that much of a difference how fast I am going when I hit it...so it is good to hear that this sounds normal. I think it was easier today as I tried to shift more frequently instead of trying to power my way through it.

I am hoping the weather will permit me to head out Thursday after work and do some hill repeats on 875 and 200s in Boone County - if you are familiar with that area. After this next Saturday I want to start heading south every other Saturday, if possible, and play in the hills. I just wanted to get up to being able to tolerate longer rides first...

[tulip]

Catrin, I think you are doing great. It was not so long ago that you were not comfortable shifting at all. Now you are learning the art of when to shift. You will need to get comfortable shifting into your big front ring when you pedal downhill, but there's no rush. Just keep doing what you are doing because it's working just fine. You've made great progress and I'm very proud of you!

[indysteel]

Catrin, like I said, it's perfectly normal that momentum isn't getting you very far with the hills you've encountered thus far. I actually think focusing on it may be preventing you from learning how to best gear from some of these hills. For instance, the long hill on next week's ride--assuming it's the one I think it is--is long but not steep, so climbing it is more a question of patience than anything. You have to find a gear you can sustain without killing your legs or blowing up your lung and then get into a steady rhythm.

Climbing in southern Indiana confounded me until I started riding with a friend of mine who taught me to pace myself from the base of the hill. It really does take some patience on some of these hills because they are too steep and long to just power over. You have to stop yourself from starting to panic because it looks like the end will never come.

It'll get easier, I promise. Like Tulip said, you've already come a long way.

On Saturday's ride, Brian and I plan to ride a bit in front of the group as is our norm on the GT rides, but sometime soon, let's head down to Morgan Monroe. There are some good hills to learn on just outside the park so I can better show you want I mean.

[Catrin]

Catrin, like I said, it's perfectly normal that momentum isn't getting you very far with the hills you've encountered thus far. I actually think focusing on it may be preventing you from learning how to best gear from some of these hills. For instance, the long hill on next week's ride--assuming it's the one I think it is--is long but not steep, so climbing it is more a question of patience than anything. You have to find a gear you can sustain without killing your legs or blowing up your lung and then get into a steady rhythm.

Climbing in southern Indiana confounded me until I started riding with a friend of mine who taught me to pace myself from the base of the hill. It really does take some patience on some of these hills because they are too steep and long to just power over. You have to stop yourself from starting to panic because it looks like the end will never come.

It'll get easier, I promise. Like Tulip said, you've already come a long way.

On Saturday's ride, Brian and I plan to ride a bit in front of the group as is our norm on the GT rides, but sometime soon, let's head down to Morgan Monroe. There are some good hills to learn on just outside the park so I can better show you want I mean.

Cool, I will remember this next Saturday - and I did NOT go and drive it. I figured if I did and found a really long and steep hill that it might beat me before I actually ride it.

Good to hear that you and Brian will be there, I will be the one at the rear of the group. Way at the rear I am greatly looking forward to my introduction to southern Indiana - at least I know that my bike is geared for it

Just let me know when a good time would be to head down to Morgan Monroe - that sounds like a great idea. Now I seem to, hopefully, have my saddle issues solved - at least I hope so...

Tulip and Indy, thanks for the encouragement, it is appreciated!

[marni]

mantra for hill climbing- to the song of Frer Jacques
we are climbing, we are climbing,
yes we are, yes we are
This is not a real hill, this is not a real hill,
No it's not, no ti's not.

when in dobut/downshift until you can't shift anymore and remember, as long as you are maintaining enough momentum to move forward, you are in balance and all is good.

My worse climb was 8400 feet of elevation over 6 miles at just under 3 miles an hour.

marni

[Eden]

My worse climb was 8400 feet of elevation over 6 miles at just under 3 miles an hour.

marni

ehhhhhhh - I highly doubt that........ that would be a road that averages over 26% grade for 6 miles.

[Crankin]

Catrin, you can't improve if you don't have many places to practice what you want to do!
Besides, 6 mph is a perfectly respectable speed for steep climbs. Unless you are racing, what's the point of going so fast that you eventually blow up and have to get off the bike? I have seen this time and time again on rides; people are mashing up the hill, trying to go faster, when suddenly, I notice it looks like they have been shot backwards out of a cannon. Get in your granny gear at the bottom of the hill and stay in a mid to higher range gear on the back. Shift down as you need to on the rear, trying to keep a steady cadence. Do *not* look at your computer! I have been told time and time again that I am a good climber... but really, all I do is use the easiest gear I can, spin up the hill, and pace myself.
The best thing that ever happened to me was on our recent trip to Spain, they did not have computers on the bikes. At first, I complained. But, as we got into the "mountains," I appreciated it. DH and I just ticked the pedals over again and again. We had 3 very difficult climbs (two of them ranked climbs from the Vuelta and one 10 mile climb), as well as a few others. We made it up all of them ahead of everyone else in the group, except for the 2 people who were clearly stronger, who were trying to go as fast as possible. After riding at home for the past 6 weeks since we got back, I now realize we must have been going between 3-6 mph . I think this is especially important if you don't know what lies ahead.
Don't worry so much about this. It will come.