Barefoot Running

[Trek420]

I have Polish/Russian feet.

[NbyNW]

Fascinating! My feet are Taiwanese.

[KnottedYet]

I've got Norwegian feet.

But they are archetypal Egyptian feet.

Go figure...

(and Trek dear, you have Egyptian feet, too. Or at least, not-Greek and not-Celtic) (the long 2nd ray occurs all over the earth, but seems especially prevalent in Greeks and Celts)

[Bike Chick]

Knott, I want some of your shoes! This is neat stuff. My brother and I were comparing our feet tonight and they are identical pairs in different sizes. Our spouses were teasing us about the shape and size of our second toes. My family always said that when your second toe is longer than your first, you were the boss of the family. Now I know where that originated from.

Regarding the VFFs, I want to order a pair for kayaking to start with but where do you get them? I've looked on the internet and they are out of stock on almost every site. There are also warnings about ordering counterfeit shoes. I'm a little apprehensive.

[OakLeaf]

FWIW (not that any of this really belongs in the barefoot thread ) - with my very short first MTs (both 2nd and 3rd are longer than 1st) and very wide forefeet, I did go with the Nike Zoom Triax Structure 13, for a couple of reasons, #1 being that they just fit so much better than anything else. Surprised the heck out of me, since Nikes used to be so super narrow. I was starting to get a tailors' bunion on one foot from, like, EVERY other pair of shoes I own including my wide Mizunos, and most everything I tried on was even narrower in the forefoot - not good. The Nikes have a VERY square toe box and the heels are plenty narrow for me, even in the Wide width.

After I compared apples to apples - taking out the rock-hard orthotics that I wasn't going to use any more in any case, and using the stock insoles; and comparing that pair against new shoes in other models - I decided that they weren't actually intolerably cushiony, especially not so much as to to offset the fit. Took the better part of 100 miles to get used to them, but they served me just fine for 26.2.

But I'd still buy three pairs of your shoes, Knott, if they fit my duck feet.

[KnottedYet]

I've been suggesting running sandals (like the Chaco Z1) to my agonized Irish-footed patients, based on the recommendations I've heard for running shoes for Irish feet. Neutral heel; dense, firm midsole material; minimal-to-none contouring; no imprinted toe-break; no dual density shennanigans.

I also suggest them to my extreme Egyptian footed patients with really long 1st rays and tiny stubby toes, who also have a hellish time with "average" engineered running shoes. (like me)

The fancier the shoe engineering, the less well the shoes will work for the two ends of the goofy bell curve of foot structure.

And if running barefoot makes the world a better place for someone, I'm happy as along as they think about what they are running on and train carefully. (and go to a PT if they start having trouble)

[Bike Chick]

FWIW (not that any of this really belongs in the barefoot thread ) - with my very short first MTs (both 2nd and 3rd are shorter than 1st) and very wide forefeet, I did go with the Nike Zoom Triax Structure 13, for a couple of reasons, #1 being that they just fit so much better than anything else. Surprised the heck out of me, since Nikes used to be so super narrow. They've got a VERY square toe box and the heels are plenty narrow for me, even in the Wide width.

Oak, I may give those a try. I'm needing a new pair of shoes and have been using the Asics Gel Kayanos. They work fine but I've had so many problems with my heels, feet and ankles that I'm beginning to wonder if it's the shoes.

[KnottedYet]

There is a really cool study being published (I left the info at work) which looked at shoe type and foot type and what injury rates were.

Here's the basic idea, and I'm just going by memory: they took a bunch of experienced runners, and carefully divided them into 3 groups based on their foot posture type: pronators, neutrals, and supinators. Then they randomly assigned 1/3 of EACH GROUP to wear motion control shoes, neutral shoes, or cushy shoes. They ran for something like 3 months in only their assigned shoes.

So you had essentially 9 studies going on, cuz there was a combination of each foot posture type and each shoe type (regardless of if the foot "matched" the shoe).

The results were very cool: didn't matter what the foot posture type, the folks wearing motion control shoes had the most injuries. Folks in the neutral shoes gave them the highest comfort ratings, regardless of the person's foot posture type. There were some other bits, but I don't remember.

And the grand conclusion: doesn't matter what in tarnation you wear on your feet, as long as it feels good to you. Your body is smart enough to tell what will work for it.

Run! Be happy!

[colby]

Thanks for keeping us up to date on all the news, Knot. It's fascinating.

My massage (not a traditional massage, more of the active release type) and chiro (sports rehab kind of guy) have both been pleased with the progress of my Vibram running. Heel pain is gone. Hips, SI, pelvis, low back, all staying much more stable. Ankles and calves have adapted. Pain in my shins (shin splints, I guess) is far more tolerable than it has been in the past at this volume of running - as in, you can actually touch my shins - and I can massage/stretch it out.

Having been through the adaptation to the minimalist running, though, I don't think it's for everyone. Just like saddles on a bike (and bike fits themselves, for that matter), there's no perfect shoe for everyone. There are definitely foot shapes that the Vibrams wouldn't work very well for (long toes, toes that vary in length from "average toes" too much, very narrow feet might have trouble, not sure about the flat-footed either). Not to mention, concrete... ouch. I am not sure I will be able to run the Seattle Marathon in them, it's so much concrete. On the other hand, I can't imagine running without them anymore.

I got a pair of Bikilas in the mail this week - had to get womens sized ones, they don't make them in mens under a 40 (I need a 39 ). They seem narrower in the forefoot and the heel, but not too narrow. The sole is stiffer than the KSOs and the inside is much softer. The toes have reflective material on them. I haven't ran in them yet, I'm traveling and didn't bring them with me, sticking with what I know for now. I don't know if I have the time to break them in over the next 3 weeks to run a marathon in them, but we'll see. I really hope I can run in them barefoot without getting the painful marks on my arches. They are also white, which should be better in the sun.

[Blueberry]

Regarding the VFFs, I want to order a pair for kayaking to start with but where do you get them? I've looked on the internet and they are out of stock on almost every site. There are also warnings about ordering counterfeit shoes. I'm a little apprehensive.

Check REI and Kayak Shed.

With REI, they go in and out of stock a lot - so it pays to watch the stock. I've also found a couple of local stores (Great Outdoor Provision Company is one) that get them in fairly regularly - so there might be somewhere near you.

[Bike Chick]

Thanks Blueberry! REI was out of stock on everything. I'll keep checking.

[Blueberry]

Thanks Blueberry! REI was out of stock on everything. I'll keep checking.

Good luck! It really does vary - sometimes hour to hour. Which one are you looking for, and I'll keep an extra eye out

[Bike Chick]

Women's Sprint, size 40, in blue if possible. Thanks!

We are heading to St Louis for the weekend and going to REI so I may get lucky there.

We are running in the Susan B. Komen Race For The Cure on Saturday. It's the first time I've done this and I'm really excited about it.

[Blueberry]

This is too cute: http://www.vibramfivefingers.com/pro...rma_jane_f.cfm I think they must have just come out...

One other thing I'll add - if you're looking at REI and they show them as backorder-able, I'd go ahead and order them. They're usually pretty quick to ship (and if you're a member, shipping over $75 is now free to your house).

[nscrbug]

Thanks Blueberry! REI was out of stock on everything. I'll keep checking.

Try this site -
http://birthdayshoes.com/

They have an email alert that you can sign up for, and they will send you alerts on when online stores have the VFF's in stock. Very cool feature. FWIW, try checking citysports.com as that is usually the place that has 'em.