Move from triple to compact is killing me.

[Zen]

.. I'm 27 and have had the arthritis for 11 years now. I let the arthritis rule my life for too long. Up until 2 years ago I was pretty much sedentary and used a cane to get around about half of the time. Lots of heavy duty meds and lots of exercise later, I'm too hard headed at this point to let the new bike win I've worked too hard to come this far. Quite frankly, some days I'm still amazed at who I am today vs. 2 years ago.

27...
minus 11 years...
that give me an entirely different perspective of the situation. "I don't blame you for being hard headed" said the hard headed 51 year old.
it's remarkable what exercise can do for us yet so many people would rather just take a pill

[Cataboo]

Catriona's suggestion of a SRAM XX cassette has possibilities too. Just keep in mind that a SRAM rear derailleur is not compatiable with a Shimano shifter. Something about the shift ratios being different- I'm drawing a blank here.

*wanders off to check out the part specs on the Madone*

I have no idea and I'm not sure if many people know since sram XX is so new... But I think you could possibly run a shimano mountain bike 9 speed rear derailleur, use the xx cassette (if the 10 speed spacing is the same between the xx and a shimano or sram 10 speed road cassette) and then use it on a shimano shifter.



9 speed shifters won't work with 10 speed cassette - but I'm pretty sure that you can run a 9 speed cassette on 10 speed shifters... You just end up having a ghost shift for the last one. Somewhere on here, debw and or lunacycles were discussing how to do it on a cyclocross bike... It may have been for someone's terry valkyrie that they were getting information on how to build up. So going to a 9 speed mountain bike cassette in the back, she'd probably only have to change the rear derailleur & cassette.

[Cataboo]

Okay, because I was curious and I'm taken with the idea, even though this cassette is godawful expensive, which supposedly is because it takes 8 hours to make according to some article:


Found a couple websites that say:
* XX shifters and derailleurs are not 1:1 like existing SRAM 9-spd derailleurs. They use the same ratio as Red, Force, Rival. Cassettes, chains, shifters derailleurs all are interchangeable between SRAM road and XX groups. *


So definitely anyone with sram road shifters can run the 11-36 cassette & will have to get the xo rear derailleur.

I know you can interchange sram road cassettes with shimano shifters - so I would say that shimano shifters will probably run this cassette - there is a shimano 29er specific cassette that's 12-36, so I think a shimano mountain bike rear derailleur would clear this cassette - but if not, sram does make an xx 11-32 cassette.


another quote:
As far as shifting goes, the XX shifters and derailleurs borrow the Exact Actuation movement from SRAM’s road groups. That means a) that the cable pull corresponds to exactly the same amount of derailleur movement, and b) that SRAM’s road levers and derailleurs will be compatible with the XX shifter and derailleurs.

http://www.velonews.com/article/92426
http://austinontwowheels.org/2009/06...ountain-group/

[Becky]

What's the difference between a road and touring triple?

I was thinking of something like the Sugino XD600 shown here: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/cranks/11074.html. Not as low as a true MTB triple crankset, but lower than a road triple. Would require a new bottom bracket though...

9 speed shifters won't work with 10 speed cassette - but I'm pretty sure that you can run a 9 speed cassette on 10 speed shifters... You just end up having a ghost shift for the last one. Somewhere on here, debw and or lunacycles were discussing how to do it on a cyclocross bike... It may have been for someone's terry valkyrie that they were getting information on how to build up. So going to a 9 speed mountain bike cassette in the back, she'd probably only have to change the rear derailleur & cassette.

If a 9-speed cassette will work with 10-speed shifters, that might be the cheapest way to gear down. I've never stuck a 9-speed wheel on a 10-speed bike....will try this tonight!

I love the looks of that new SRAM XX. (If I convert to it, DH will kill me. It's a given. ) My only concern in this application is finding a rear derailleur with enough capacity to handle that cassette range, and that will still work with the existing shifters if possible. If I found the right Madone on the interwebs, Lo's bike has Shimano Ultegra SL on it.

[lo123]

I was thinking of something like the Sugino XD600 shown here: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/cranks/11074.html. Not as low as a true MTB triple crankset, but lower than a road triple. Would require a new bottom bracket though...


If a 9-speed cassette will work with 10-speed shifters, that might be the cheapest way to gear down. I've never stuck a 9-speed wheel on a 10-speed bike....will try this tonight!

I love the looks of that new SRAM XX. (If I convert to it, DH will kill me. It's a given. ) My only concern in this application is finding a rear derailleur with enough capacity to handle that cassette range, and that will still work with the existing shifters if possible. If I found the right Madone on the interwebs, Lo's bike has Shimano Ultegra SL on it.

Becky - you're right.. 2009 Madone 5.2 WSD full Ultegra SL... Should've put that in the OP, oops.

You guys are the greatest... I feel a little more confident in my options--I prefer to go into LBS armed with knowledge so as to avoid being given the 'little lady treatment' as I call it.

[lo123]

27...
minus 11 years...
that give me an entirely different perspective of the situation. "I don't blame you for being hard headed" said the hard headed 51 year old.
it's remarkable what exercise can do for us yet so many people would rather just take a pill

I still need the pills and shots and IV infusions just to be able to walk. It's the exercise that let's me be 'normal' (well, as normal as a crazy gal like me can be, I suppose ).

But yeah, I have a different perspective on life than most. And I wanna be fast again dammit!

[Cataboo]

Okay, it's irking me I can't find that thread.

But I did find that IRD makes a shimano compatible 10 speed 11-32 cassette:
http://harriscyclery.net/itemdetails.cfm?ID=2353

That must be the one I was thinking of from before - probably it needs a mountain bike rear derailleur.

You can definitely do the 10 speed shifter thing with 9 speed cassette with this jerkmate thing:
http://jtekengineering.com/shiftmate.htm

But it looks like just routing the cable differently will also do it:
http://sheldonbrown.com/derailer-adj...html#alternate


Options:

- Going to a triple is going to cost triple cranks (& maybe bottom bracket) + probably new shifter + new front derailleur + new rear derailleur (she's probably going to need the long cage rear if she doesn't have it, and the double front derailleur isn't going to handle the triple cranks... I don't think ultegra sl shifters are double or triple compatible, but I haven't specifically pulled them up to look...)

- Going to a 9 speed mountain bike rear cassette - 11-34 or something
- cost of cassette (not too bad) + a mountain bike rear derailleur probably. Downside - her gears are going to be far apart, so it may be hard finding a comfortable gear. The advantage of this is that a 9 speed mountain bike cassette is probably cheaper than getting a 10 speed cassette.

- Going to a 10 speed mountain bike rear cassette (SRAM XX) or that IRD, probably again needs a mountain bike rear derailleur, but a 9 speed rear derailleur can handle 10 speed shifters (I've done 9,10 & 8, 9 mismatches) - this is probably more expensive than going to a 9 speed rear cassette - but the gears will be slightly tighter than the 9 speed and she might have a more comfortable time going through the gears.

- Going to a more compact front crankset - costs, new crankset & possibly bottom bracket... that'll do away with a lot of the high gears though for flats.

[Cataboo]

I love the looks of that new SRAM XX. (If I convert to it, DH will kill me. It's a given. ) My only concern in this application is finding a rear derailleur with enough capacity to handle that cassette range, and that will still work with the existing shifters if possible. If I found the right Madone on the interwebs, Lo's bike has Shimano Ultegra SL on it.

I think a shimano mountain bike rear derailleur will do it because shimano makes a 12-36 cassette for 29ers - but maybe it won't be able to handle the 11-36 range, but the 11 tooth cog on the 11-36 sram cassette is not attached to the rest of the cassette, so it can probably just be swapped for a 12 tooth cog to make it something that a shimano mountain bike rear derailleur can handle.

If SRAM road shifters can shift the SRAM XX cassette - I'm fairly certain that shimano ones can do it as well. It may come down to being a tricky tune though, and that just will require either a skillful mechanic who's willing to try and make it work.

[Cataboo]

I still need the pills and shots and IV infusions just to be able to walk. It's the exercise that let's me be 'normal' (well, as normal as a crazy gal like me can be, I suppose ).

But yeah, I have a different perspective on life than most. And I wanna be fast again dammit!

Lo123,

you're faster than me!

[Cataboo]

I should work at work, instead of researching hypothetical bike builds:

http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/in.../t-433254.html

Looks like the IRD 11-34 10 speed cassette works with shimano mtb rear derailleurs, but works better with older XT or XTR ones than the newer ones.

Various people saying they got it to work vs. didn't - santana 11-34 cassettes seem less finicky than the IRD ones...

But I think at some point it's going to come down to, how patient of a mechanic do you have...

I know the BF tells me a lot of times what I want to do doesn't work... and gives up and does something else if I let him. Then when he wants it to work on his bike, magically he fiddles with things long enough to make it work. Other times I have to just pulling up webpage links going "it says so right here it'll work" and he'll roll his eyes and keep at it to prove me wrong, until he makes it work.

I could of course get better at tuning stuff myself, but I haven't gotten to the point where I can make finicky stuff work yet.

[Becky]

I should work at work, instead of researching hypothetical bike builds:

http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/in.../t-433254.html

Looks like the IRD 11-34 10 speed cassette works with shimano mtb rear derailleurs, but works better with older XT or XTR ones than the newer ones.

Various people saying they got it to work vs. didn't - santana 11-34 cassettes seem less finicky than the IRD ones...

That's sort of what I was wondering....if a Shimano MTB rear derailleur had enough swing to cover all 10 cogs. Sounds like it does!

[tribogota]

I am just plus one-ing on what other people have said. First of all living with pain sucks.
On the bike side though, I have the same compact ultegra as you and I ride up hills at an average of slow, in other words SLOW.
And I ride with professional triathletes (ok, not with, behind). So, I am extra slow compared to them. I started riding this bike one year ago and in that year I have gone from 4-8mph going up to 6-12 mph, lots of improvemente in one year. It is hard to be the slow person with fast riders. One of my mates just went and competed in his first Ironman at kona and came in 3rd in his category and 71st overall, trained 1 year, 6 mos seriously, talk about freaks of nature. And yes, at the rest stop they rest and wait for me and as soon as I get there, off we go again, spelling NO REST for me.
But, in the half ironman I did this year, who would have thought, I zipped by people left and right, it was kind of fun. But alas, I am most interested by my own improvement to myself, this week I went up one of our steep hills in the second to easiest instead of the easiest, boy was that an improvement!

You are gonna get there but it may be slow at first. All things have learning curves and we don't get to just jump ahead and those freaks of nature, well...we aren't them, they aren't us. (BTW, my kona winning friend takes way longer than me to finish a book, so he thinks I am a freak of reading nature.)

[aicabsolut]

hmm.. 170 on the cranks. I hadn't thought about that. I'll talk to the guy who did my pro fit and see if that's something that might work for me.

Don't worry about going shorter with the cranks for the purposes of spinning only. It is not "easier" to spin with short cranks. Instead, you are forced to spin more because you are moving in smaller circles, but you may need to exert more power to the pedals. So, it is "easier" to turn longer cranks, because you have more torque. Some big power sprinters and time trialists use long cranks with very large rings (like 56T). You just have more knee action in a larger circle, which can make for fit issues and knee issues if you're using cranks that are too long for your leg biomechanics. For small changes in crank length, IMO it is difficult to notice the ease or difficulty of turning the cranks. For some people, it's difficult to notice the fit differences, too (though 2.5mm longer hurts my knees, personally).

[Cataboo]

Shorter cranks'll limit some of the hip motion and may relieve some of the hip pain that lo123 has. Sheldon Brown says that cranks should be taken into account for gain ratios:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/gain.html
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/cranks.html

This is on rehabbing labral tears in cyclists, suggesting that excessive hip angulation on too long of cranks contributes to it:
http://www.rehabtoracing.com/resourc...C-winter09.pdf

Couple guys that have relieved some of their hip arthritis pain by switching to shorter cranks:
http://www.serotta.com/forum/archive...p?t-51194.html
(there's more threads on that on a google - so at least anecdotally shorter cranks should help with hip pain)


I know I get knee pain if my cranks are too long.

[lo123]

Thanks for all the input... I think I'm going to look at the new rear cassette and deraileur option since it seems that would be my best option to get closer to the gearing on the Tricross.

I really appreciate all the responses and options you guys have thrown out. I'm glad to know that it's possible to get a better setup that just might work for me.