Totally off topic - but I'm pleased...

[pkq]

Veronica, I don't have kids but I listen to those who do. This is what they say:

1. Kids have too much homework.
2. Homework can't be done by kids so parents are doing quite a bit of it.
3. Maybe they, the parents and school system, are not teaching their kids how to handle failure. The parents ensure everything is perfect on their homework and other stuff. Schools are not allowed to have failures, i.e., everyone is a winner.
4. Parents don't spend much or enough time with their kids.
5. Kids have digital cable, big screen TVs, and high speed internet in their rooms.
6. Kids get "stuff" or toys and gizmos year round now.
7. Kids don't play enough outdoors.
8. Kids have Play Station and other video games.
9. Too many extracurricular school activities.
10. Discipline is hard to do because kids use the threat of the Child Protection Agency against parents.
11. Parents don't want schools disciplining their kids.
12. Kids watch too many movies and cable programming.
13. Kids are bored much too often.

If people have too much done for them, including entertainment, they do not have to think much. Some of these may be contributors to younger generations inability to "think outside the box." These are very middle income parents.

Some of what I have seen makes me a firm believer in returning to the basics of the Three R's. Some kids are being taught Boolean algebra who haven't mastered arithmetic. I wonder about the "logic" of that.

[Irulan]

I didn't quite follow, this is what people that you know who have kids say? Sheesh. You'll be happy to know that not everyone thinks like that. Here are notes from our house and community. Most of the families I know run along similar lines. There are a lot of folks doing good jobs with thier kids, too. and a lot of great kids.

1. my kids get homework done at school, we have never had too much. They'd like more.
2. The only homework we've ever run into that the kids couldn't do was pre-calc and they went in early for help, we've never done it for them.
3. Everyone is a winner attitude disgusts us and our kids. It does a disservice to those who actually DO work hard.
4. We spend a lot of time together as a family.
5.No TV in rooms, but the geek child did build three computers for himself and his brother, and networked the house.
6. I've been anti stuff from day one. Don'tget me going on disneyfication and happy meal toys.... My 16 year old STILL plays with boxes...
7.a family of bikers, hikers, skiers and one kid runs for the XC team.
8. evil mother made them save their own $$ for that, would not buy it.
9.Lots of down time at our house. We do not beleive in overscheduling.
10. You have got to be kidding me. What were the parents going to do, beat their kids with a tire iron?
11. We disclipline our kids just fine, thank you very much. It's too bad more parents don't.
12. they learn from their parents who ought to know where the off switch is. We do.
13. Boredom is the mother of creativity.

FWIW, mine are 19 - college freshman engineering student, Eagle Scout, Top national student ski patroller, and 16, HS sophomore, ski patroller, XC runner, both are AP/honors students.
We've had great teachers and a pretty good run throught our public school system here in district 81, Spokane.

gotta run,

Irulan

[RoadRaven]

Hey there... my two cents...

I teach at tertiary level, so not with kids... but I still get seemingly dumb questions... however, I always stress to my students that the only silly question is the one they don't ask, and they can ask me during or after the class...

But I do definately know the frustration of someone asking something you have already explained... so a strategy I use is to ask the class if someone else would care to explain this to the student who is still inclear.

The response tells me one of two things:whether the rest of the class has understood the concept/idea... or whether everyone is still as clear as mud and I need to try a different approach.

By giving the class the opportunity to "be the teacher" I am also allowing leadership skills and support of self-esteem to emerge, as well as encouraging co-construction of knowledge and peer-tutoring... co-construction and deconstruction of knowledge are skills we (the teaching team I work with)actively encourage in our students.

Well done on persevering, and congrats on the results! Such a good feeling to know that you have facilitated positive change in people's lives.

[Veronica]

Students read an article about teasing.

Assignment - write what this makes you think of.
Student question - Can we write about getting teased?

My response - Is that what you thought about as we read the article?

Okay so that's one question. Imagine this all day from 30 kids. it's like they just need confirmation that they're on the right track - for everything.

[RoadRaven]

Irulan, I love the way you value self-esteem and family...

Everyone is a winner attitude disgusts us and our kids. It does a disservice to those who actually DO work hard.

Absolutely agree... what is the point of a competition if no-one wins... and what do kids want? To know who is "the best"... absolutely congratulate and acknowledge the efforts others made, but ultimately most countries/cultures in our world operate on a "winner" mentality. And that is what inspires us and motivates us.

We spend a lot of time together as a family.

This is vital, how do children learn to be part of a family if the family just "being" together is not valued?

No TV in rooms, but the geek child did build three computers for himself and his brother, and networked the house.

Shock, horror... we have only one TV in the house and seven of us live here... this, despite the increasing "Americanisation" of our families because we do tend to buy alot of TV from the US and lots of those TV families have TVs and computers and playstations/x-box in their rooms. Maybe in my kid's friends rooms... not in this house.

Lots of down time at our house. We do not beleive in overscheduling.

I see this so much, having worked in pre-school, and now a teacher of teachers, I have seen too much of this. Children who arrive at preschool with a hash brown and bagel from MaccyDees in hand because the house has to get kids to school, kids to preschool, and parents to work... Children who spend 7-8 hours at child care then have to do baby gym, preschool music or any number of extra curricular activities at the end of the day... Children who have more extra-curricular activities at weekends, and have babysitters or nannies because the parents want "time to themselves"...
I applaud you Irulan for taking and relishing the challenge of being a parent, and knowing that you do not have to fill every second of your childrens lives with "stuff" and for valuing just being together, reading books, talking...

We disclipline our kids just fine, thank you very much. It's too bad more parents don't.

What we have seen from kids that aren't disciplined (and I don't mean using tyre irons!) is kids who are rude, disrespectful and arrogant when we go on school trips or camps... kids who have never learned to listen... or should that be, kids who have been taught to ignore...
Example...
Mum, can I?
No you can't...
But mum, can I...
Mum says firmly "No"
But Mum...
No!
Mum, please...
Look... (Mum goes into loooong explaination about why not)
But mum....
Ah....
Mum, please can I?
Umm...
Please please please
Oh, ok, just this once...

Boredom is the mother of creativity.

LOL, Irulan... my kids know that "I'm bored"... or "There's nothing to do..." will get a quick response with a list of things to "unbore" them... dishes, tidy room, clear deck, windows... they hardly ever bother with saying that to me, they know I will find them something to do that they may not want...

I have 5 children, aged 10-17... 4 boys and a girl, and they are great kids and I love spending time with them...

[Crankin]

Love the way this thread is going. I know I responded as a teacher, but as a parent, i pretty much agree with what irulan said.. my kids were allowed to do one extra curricular activity plus go to religious school (twice a week, then three times a week before their Bar Mitzvah). They tried baseball, soccer, art lessons, archery, skiing, running, etc. My older son started taking music lessons in 5th grade and kept at it until he graduated. He actually took lessons for 2 instruments. But, what they remember is that they played in the woods. The built forts. They jumped off the back deck into the snow... Thye went to an Audubon camp for 4 years where they slept in a tent for 6 weeks and did water sports and environmental activities. There was no TV in the bedroom, but they did use the family computer a lot. No Disney here. I think it's the evil empire! In fact, they only went to amusement parks on school trips. When they got to high school, they did whatever activities they wanted, as long as they could get there. My older son was in the band, edited the creative writing magazine, and was a class officer. The younger one was in a community service club and a religious fraternity, but spent most of high school racing his bike. Oh yes, they complained that we never went to theme parks or took them out of school for vacations, but they survived and are decent adults....

[Irulan]

I guess what I am trying to say is that even tho I know that teaching can be really tough, I get annoyed *in general* because as a whole one doesn't hear about the good kids and the decent families, and there are a lot of them out there - the self starters, motivated, centered ones. No one talks about them. It's not a factor of what class you are in, there are good decent people who arew raising great kids across the economic and social landscape.

In our whole run thourgh the public school system ( here, my community) as a whole most of the kids I know are pretty bright, focused, and doing well. As we are in the midst of teen stuff, the kids I know are involved in musics, sports, arts, community service and are well balanced. Many of them are earning scholarships to go on to college. They don't do drugs, go to sex parties, freak dance, hang out at the mall. But you never hear about these kids. You hear about the ones who get the school dance shut down fro freak dancing ( lastest local scandal) And again, this transends socio-economic borders. There are good kids and families everywhere, they just get ignored because they are doing OK.

LOL, I've certainly met my share of decent kids whose only problem IS the parents, this almost gets worse IMO the more $ the parents have because then they think they have the privelidge of telling teachers how to do thier job. God Bless, Mrs. Mai, telling the parents to BUTT OUT and let the kids do their own work. I burned out on school volunteering when the oldest hit 7th.

Even my kid multi tasks while doing homework, combining IM with pre-calc and maybe something else at the same time. ( gaming? Google?) It drives me nuts, but that is the culture, and who am I to complain if he can do all that and maintain a 3.9?



just my 2¢ worth of rant, as usual

Irulan

[Irulan]

No Disney here. I think it's the evil empire!

oh oh oh, a whole new thread, why my kids are great, why their teachers are great, and why Disney is the evil Empire!! I'm with you all the way...

[pkq]

Irulan, those are things I have heard from parents. BTW, most of those parents and kids are considered good and successful. Some are comments parents have said about their own child(ren)/situation or another's child(ren)/situation because it impacts their children.

Iulan, counselors have said there are a lot of good kids doing some pretty amazing things. You and your husband have raised kids in that category, which is wonderful. That is an accomplishment because parenting is not for the weak.

There are a lot of families that are not quite as functional as yours. Some counselors I've talked with say the ones that need the attention, because of their dysfunction, get it. The ones who don't need the attention, don't get it. The good kids don't cause any trouble to gain attention; they go about their business. The disruptive ones can't be allowed to be disruptive.

One counselor said the good kids he deals with don't really want or need attention. Those kids want the attention to go where it is needed most.

Having been a "bad" kid turned "good," I can say good kids do get attention, and better treatment than the bad ones. Good kids get a lot of positive attention whereas bad kids often don't. I got a lot of negative attention, was ignored, and was treated differently, as a bad kid. Bad kids usually get attention only when they are bad and need discipline.

If an English teacher had not possessed the courage to flunk me one 6 weeks and my sister had not been graduating with honors and going off to college that same year, I may not have turned around. After I turned around, the positive attention I got was wonderful! Loved it! I loved the respect I got, too.

I haven't thought much about it but there is a difference in treatment of good and bad kids.

[pkq]

it's like they just need confirmation that they're on the right track - for everything.

Geez, I know adults like that. Adults older than me. OTOH, I get slammed because I am too decisive, too matter-of-fact, too dogmatic. You just gotta' laugh.

[DirtDiva]

Having been a "bad" kid turned "good," I can say good kids do get attention, and better treatment than the bad ones. Good kids get a lot of positive attention whereas bad kids often don't. I got a lot of negative attention, was ignored, and was treated differently, as a bad kid. Bad kids usually get attention only when they are bad and need discipline.

A lot of irritating behaviour is about attention. Everyone needs attention and if kids continually aren't getting enough they'll do whatever it takes to get some - acting out is a very effective way of getting an immediate response. It's such an easy trap to fall into as a teacher too, yet making a real effort to "catch" these kids doing the right things and giving them the praise they deserve for it can have a huge impact.