TDF Discussion - here be spoilers

[papaver]

I have seen it.. watched it live. The fact he didn't ride away with the stage today does not take away (for me) what he's done the last 3weeks.

He gave a little respect back to Lance. Great. Lance rode incredibly well today though - don't take that away from him.

Yes but everybody seems to forget what lance did the first week. Really weird. People obviously see want they want to see. He ordered Levi to leave AC behind. And that isn't much team spirit either.

Of course Lance's performance today was great. No question about that. But I'm getting kinda tired of people saying that AC is not a team player. His team wasn't behind him in the first place, thanks to lance.

[BabyBlueNTulsa]

You make good points.

[papaver]

But hey, I find Lance's performance really incredible. But i'm more proud of Jurgen Van Den Broeck.

He is just a helper for Cadel Evans and if he didn't fell during the team TT he would have been on 8th place. Such a shame.

[BabyBlueNTulsa]

True. There was more than one or two 'poor luck' situations this year, yes?

Not to stick on the Astana team, I'm kinda wondering how Levi would have fared without his broken wrist.. (boo).

I haven't read through the whole thread yet..what the heck happened to Sastre? It was really strange not to see him AND Evans ' up there ' in GC.

[papaver]

True. There was more than one or two 'poor luck' situations this year, yes?

Not to stick on the Astana team, I'm kinda wondering how Levi would have fared without his broken wrist.. (boo).

I haven't read through the whole thread yet..what the heck happened to Sastre? It was really strange not to see him AND Evans ' up there ' in GC.

Cadel had one very bad day and from then on it all went downhill. I guess something snapped in his head. He just didn't have the moral anymore. Sastre, well... i don't know... he was irritated most of the time. First he wasn't allowed to start in yellow, then they missed his start in the first TT, he was ignored by the press...

[lunacycles]

If you just listen to Phil and Paul--or any of the versus crew--you would think the only person who matters in the race is Lance. Lance is great, good on him, blah blah blah, but the U.S. press has completely ignored Contador, especially compared to Lance. Bruyneel wanted Lance to win, the leadership of the team was disputed and created a giant media distraction even though Contador had EARNED it by winning 4 grand tours in the last year, and Contador simply did his job for his team, sponsor, and yes, self, by winning. I am really impressed by Lance and what he has achieved this year and in the last decade, but credit to Contador should be given. He had to overcome a lot to win the tour this year and he did so convincingly.

Did you know Contador also returned to top level racing after suffering a life-threatening injury? You wouldn't know by watching American T.V. cuz it is all lance all the time.

I don't have any opinions, though. It's a great race and distraction during the month of July.

[berkeley]

The crowds today were pretty amazing.

Contador for some reason reminds me of Skinner from Ratatouille. Except without the big hat.

[jobob]

ITA with Margo & papaver's opinions (or Margo's non-opinion )

I don't see why Contador deserves all this flak about being evasive and self-serving and not a team player.

Sure, those of us in the US see it mostly through Versus' highly selective filter, and Bob Roll in particular (along with Paul and Phil, who I suspect know better, but they also know where their paychecks come from) has been nauseatingly rah-rah Lance for the last three weeks.

But Contador has had little to no opportunity to speak for himself -- shame on him for not being fluent in English on the American-Kazahk-Belgian-American Astana squad, yeesh! -- and face it, everything that was said on Versus and in the mainstream American-centered press was for the benefit and glorification of Lance, and Contador was simply in the way of that.

Contador was the undisputed leader of team Astana until Lance decided to sashay back in, so of course Contador must have felt the rug was pulled out from under him. Why wouldn't he?

And what's this evasive stuff?? He doesn't speak very much English for cryin' out loud, plus the American media didn't care about him at all -- that was obvious -- the media only cared about the ridiculously trumped-up "rivalry" between him and Lance. So can you blame Contador for thinking this was for the birds, and making a few moves to show early on who was "boss" (to use Lance-centric lingo ) ? And naturally he got all sorts of crap for that. Of course, were it Lance to make such moves, we would have been treated to the usual Lance is the "Patron" BS that we in the US are so accustomed to hearing. Hell, the Versus boys made a huge deal over Lance getting into those gaps and gaining a few seconds on his rivals -- including his teammates-- good lord they were going absolutely gah gah over those four seconds Lance gained yesterday, yeesh.

Anyhow, Lance did a fabulous job today, kudos to him, he actually lived up to all the compliments he received today. That was a thrilling stage.

What on earth happened to Sastre?

[denda]

I really enjoyed the Tour this year. I'm not a Lance fan, but you have to admit it made it more interesting to watch, because most people watching were either cheering for him or cheering against him.
I don't blame Contador for anything he did or didn't do during the race, and in the end I was glad Lance did as well as he did. It was pretty amazing.

[Thorn]

OK, maybe Contador didn't play the team tactics when he dropped Kloden, but perhaps he was just doing a CYA. As many have said, he hasn't gotten the press and support a 4-time (soon to be 5) grand tour winner deserves.

But, my favorite line of the sadly, uninformed American came in the first week. We were on vacation and only got snippets of the Tour. Shortly after the Andorra finish, two of the guys got information that they shared with us--"Lance is in third by 8 seconds and there is a non-name Italian and no-name Spaniard in first and second."

OK, I didn't recognize Nocentini either, but Contador was a "no-name Spaniard"? Egads....perhaps I spend too much time watching bicycle racing, but clearly the American sports machine doesn't do much to educate the American cycling public to anyone other than Lance, Lance, Lance--can some even name just one other rider in the peleton????

[Running Mommy]

I am so on the fence here...

Back when Contador won I was happy for the team, but he came across to me as being a bit arrogant. I actually thought maybe it was a cultural thing, and that maybe I was just not accustomed to his mannerisms.

When Astana was excluded from the tour last year I was livid. I actually boycotted it and couldn't tell you who won. I felt bad for both Alberto and Levi. I thought it was a shiesty move by the tour officials.

When Lance announced he was coming back I wasn't all that happy. I loved watching him back in the day. But I just wanted to remember him the way he was, and was concerned that he would have lost some of his luster.
I was also not pleased to see him wedge his way back on to Astana. They were already a cohesive team, and I knew it was going to end up the way it did.
As the tour unfolded I was not happy with Contador. His lack of deference for the team seemed very selfish to me. But after reading some of the posts here I realized that all wasn't as it seemed, and that I needed to look at it from a wider view.

But as I sit here now I have very mixed emotions. While I can't deny that AC is a huge talent, I'm still not all that fond of him. I can't pin it down, but it really has nothing to do with Lance. And I'm very curious as to what team colors he will be wearing next year. I think a spanish team like Euskatel would be a good fit for him. Perhaps a team that doesn't already have a gc contender.
It will be interesting to see the roster for radio shack, and also whether or not they get a tour bid. You never know, it's not a guarantee.

I did enjoy todays stage. But I have always loved the tours that they ride ventoux. It is a favorite of mine.

[KnottedYet]

As I keep hearing from the jaded VS crowd, "Tour de Lance."

Gee, I wish I'd invented that phrase...

I really like getting my TdF from www.letour.fr and from Tour Day Schmalz, just cuz I get to avoid the "Tour de Lance" syndrome.

[BabyBlueNTulsa]

Today was the first time I'd heard that Alberto had been in a life-threatening health situation years-ago. Maybe I'd heard it before while watching him in the '07 TdF..not sure. Anyway VS had a video story during today's stage...

There's no disputing the guy is gifted. Yeah VS has been very pro-Lance.. and I kinda have to agree a bit with Running Mommy. I was a bit jaded on LA in the beginning days after his announcement to return. However, I cannot dis-like the man.. he's 2yrs younger than me and has accomplished a great deal. He's taken the hand he was dealt and turned it way-around for so many worldwide.

There just seems to be something unfriendly about AC. I don't know what it is. I can totally understand how he'd feel the rug was pulled out from under him right when he's ready to retake the Tour. The classy thing to do would have been to take that and work with it. Its not like anyone cut him off at the knees. Not saying I would've liked it either, but I want to keep my job and get more work later. The guy is still young...but talent like his (or Lance's) doesn't last forever.

Lord knows in the times we have now, we shouldn't p*ss in the pool.. don't burn bridges. Know what I mean?

This has been a very exciting Tour to watch...Andy Schlek is definitely one to watch...and I'd put money on seeing more of Tony Martin next yr too.

Hey - how about the mouth on Cav? Heard he apologized to Thor when they were waiting on the podiums yesterday. Got a little humility after all.

[papaver]

cav and thor kissed and made up. They even had a little sprint today for 104th and 105th place.

[pll]

Maybe the views of Contador as evasive and unfriendly have to do with his media exposure in the US/UK, through the lens of pro-Lance Versus, without a command of English? In interviews in Spanish, he sounds quite humble and shy.

I think Contador did what he needed to do to win the tour -- nobody should fault him for that.

As for joining Garmin, it'd be interesting to see if it works out. I hope we don't have any post tour doping 'surprises'. Contador's 'proximity' to doping (witness in Operacion Puerto) is not any worse than Armstrong and US Postal being clients of Michele Ferrari, aka Dottore Sangue.