Wondering how to pronunce a certain name?

[OakLeaf]

Versailles, pronounced Ver-sails. That grates on my ears every time I hear it.

Versailles, Lima, Milan, Bellefontaine, Bremen, Gallipolis, Gnadenhutten, even Toledo...

It goes the other way, too. When I visited my sister in Dallas this fall, it turns out that one of her riding buddies grew up near where I live now. We were talking about the area, people we knew in common, things that had changed, when I said something about Newark. He pounced on the name like a thirsty man with a glass of water. "Nerk! You said Nerk!" he said.

[shootingstar]

Versailles, pronounced Ver-sails. That grates on my ears every time I hear it.

Oh dear...for that gorgeous palace it MUST be French pronunciation to capture its glory. "Ver-sigh". Like the Bridge of Sighs in Venice. The English language to me is a less emotional sounding, less poetic sounding language in many of its words, compared to French, Italian or Spanish.

I said less "poetic", "emotional" in how English language sounds to the ear....before all the unilingual English speakers jump in.

[OakLeaf]

Oh dear...for that gorgeous palace it MUST be French pronunciation to capture its glory.

Don't worry, we know how to pronounce the name of the place with the palace.

There's no palace in VerSAILS, Ohio.

There's no piazza in MILE-an, Ohio.

There are no mountains in LIME-a, Ohio (pronounced like the beans, for that matter) and no fountain in BelFOUNtain, Ohio.

And if you want to pronounce the name of our state Oh-hi-oh, we won't correct you.

But for sheer poetry, read some Gerard Manley Hopkins some time (who was not from Ohio )...

Bridge of Sighs in Venice

Don't you mean the Ponte dei sospiri?

[shootingstar]

Speaking English I use the English pronounciation, and yes, I'd think it a bit affected if English speakers used the Norwegian pronounciation. It would be like me talking about Paris as "Paree" because that's how the French say it.

But not many places in Norway have an established English pronounciation as far as I know, probably because we're a small country that doesn't figure much in the news or the history books And only a handful of towns that can pass for cities. For all these other place names I'd prefer English speakers to at least attempt the Norwegian pronounciation, because the on-the-spot Americanization sounds awful to my ears.

So for some reason that doesn't sound affected, just respectful. ...

It depends on which country and region of a country, plus audience if a person should speak primarily English but insert a foreign word.

LPH if you went to various parts of Canada to discuss in English about the "coureurs des bois" (no pronounciation of s) or the fur traders in Canadian history it would be entirely appropriate. The listener might have to know/be informed that use of coureurs des bois within a whole English conversation, is respectful because it is a respectful acknowledgement of the historical legacy of the fur traders from France that helped map and explore Canada in the 17th century onward. After all, Canada historically...was named "New France", thanks to Jacques Cartier (or maybe there was some other French dude) before "Canada" was constitutionally formed in 1876 (joining of Upper Canada now Ontario and Lower Canada, now Quebec, plus other provincial team members).

http://www.canadiana.org/hbc/stories/coureurs1_e.html

It would be a shame to refer to the Quebecois meat pie, as a "meat pie "instead of tourtiere in normal English language conversation. How boring. But agree, if use the original term, at least use it in a natural, unself conscious way and with correct pronunciation.

But then there are some of us who already get plopped into social situations who mix English with their 2nd/mother tongue in the whole dialogue simply because we are desperate to be understood.

My mother dislikes her English name, Susan. My father chose it for her when she first immigrated here. She prefers an English speaker refer to her Chinese first name: "So Chuk".

[Owlie]

Versailles, Lima, Milan, Bellefontaine, Bremen, Gallipolis, Gnadenhutten, even Toledo...

It goes the other way, too. When I visited my sister in Dallas this fall, it turns out that one of her riding buddies grew up near where I live now. We were talking about the area, people we knew in common, things that had changed, when I said something about Newark. He pounced on the name like a thirsty man with a glass of water. "Nerk! You said Nerk!" he said.

I'm from southern Ohio, so Versailles was the first thing that popped into my head. But Lima and Toledo, those are the other two that bug me--thanks, five years of school Spanish.

[shootingstar]

I remember watching a Food Network show that explained the origin of beignet..and amazed that the American show didn't even acknowledge it came originally from French cuisine,....which is a term in its original French word is also used in southern Germany. Not surprising since that Alsace in France used to be part a Germanic state.

The narrator just explained when beignets were introduced into the U.S....now the doughnut.

Of course, I bow deeply to the French and southern Germans, that beignets are NOT at all like the doughnuts that we associate here in North America. I only know this because my German partner's mother used to make them.

We do use the original foreign language word for same thing in English language dialogue, a certain noodle stir-fry dish has a completely different word when one talks about CHinese cuisine, Japanese cuisnes or Thai cuisine. There are some dishes that are exactly the same in execution, ingredients and taste across those 3 countires.

[OakLeaf]

New Orleans beignets are exactly like doughnuts, except for the shape. And the fact that there's nowhere else in the USA (that I know of) that you can get doughnuts fried to order.

What are they like in France and Germany?

[shootingstar]

New Orleans beignets are exactly like doughnuts, except for the shape. And the fact that there's nowhere else in the USA (that I know of) that you can get doughnuts fried to order.

What are they like in France and Germany?

According to dearie, I am wrong, the southern Germans call them, 'berliners'. There's a way of pronouncing 'berliners' in German, that isn't so hard sounding as in English.

They are always made of yeast based dough, dusted with sugar and cinnamon and inside have a fruit jam filling.

I haven't yet tried a beignet in France.

German puff pastry is a completely different word than the French word for puff pastry, which I'm not even sure what the latter is. I would have to consult a dictionary for German to spell it out. Most definitely with Germans who speak English during the whole evening, it would be better to use the German puff pastry word. Just like the French, they too, are proud of the gourmet art and craft of handmade puff pastry from scratch.

There are certain concepts/words that denote historical legacy, cultural pride and craftsmanship/skill/artistry that originated in mother country, where it is better to learn and use the word for it when you are talking about that thing in English.

[Duck on Wheels]

Hmmm. That never occurred to me, that the beignets I had in "N'Orlens" were a direct derivative of berlinerboller (jelly-filled doughnuts here in Norway, and I think also in Germany). Same basic cooking technique, yes, but different size, shape, and taste. Both very good, tho. And though JFK declared himself to be one ("Ich bin ein berliner!"), nobody really thinks he meant he was a beignet either.

[Tuckervill]

I don't remember jelly in my beignets in NOLA?

Karen

[malkin]

How you pronounce place names in a foreign country is interesting. Even 4 letter Oslo has an established pronounciation in English (Oz-low), that is quite different from the Norwegian (oosh-lou). Speaking English I use the English pronounciation, and yes, I'd think it a bit affected if English speakers used the Norwegian pronounciation. It would be like me talking about Paris as "Paree" because that's how the French say it.

But not many places in Norway have an established English pronounciation as far as I know, probably because we're a small country that doesn't figure much in the news or the history books And only a handful of towns that can pass for cities. For all these other place names I'd prefer English speakers to at least attempt the Norwegian pronounciation, because the on-the-spot Americanization sounds awful to my ears.

So for some reason that doesn't sound affected, just respectful. I have no idea why I sense a difference.

We also have some very heavy dialects here, which can lead to place names officially called one thing and locally called something almost completely different. Even I don't know if I should try to attempt the local dialect or not! Either way I'd be laughed at as a city girl...

HooooWee!
In the late 70s when I did study abroad in Norway, we foreign students were admonished by all the language teachers to avoid that palatalized "oosh-lou" even though we heard it everywhere.

Now I feel about as ancient as Ibsen.