Wondering how to pronunce a certain name?

[crazycanuck]

Listening to the BBC on the way home tonight & heard about a useful website regarding names. The lady that runs the website is still collecting names but in the future you never know what you'll find.

It won't help you if you're wondering how to say Abhisit Vejjajiva

www.howtosaythatname.com

[Flybye]

That is useful, thanks!
I am sitting at a table at a condo in Sun Valley that until recently I had pronounced with a strong Americanese as
Atelier
At.....lee.....air
Very wrong
Ah...till....e....ay



Thanks!

[OakLeaf]

Oh, that's handy! Thanks!

The one I'd been using from the Library of Congress hasn't been updated in three years now, so it's still useful for people who didn't just become famous.

It still doesn't have Abhisit Vejjajiva (although Wikipedia does have an audio file attached to his name; for some reason the characters in their IPA transcription don't display properly in my browser).

[Biciclista]

but it depends on where you are how things are pronounced. I used to live on a street in Boise, Idaho called ROSSI street and everyone pronounced it ross eye
(except me)

like Moscow, Idaho is not pronounced like Moscow, Russia.
and many many more.

[OakLeaf]

but it depends on where you are how things are pronounced. I used to live on a street in Boise, Idaho called ROSSI street and everyone pronounced it ross eye
(except me)

like Moscow, Idaho is not pronounced like Moscow, Russia.
and many many more.

The database takes that into account (e.g., L. Frank Baum is pronounced differently from Martin Baum) - it's partially about where the people live now, but more about where their families are from, and somewhat about personal preference. I pronounce my own last name slightly differently from the way my father does!

DH likes to laugh at the way Ohioans (aka Ahahns) pronounce the names of places that are named after foreign cities. I'd have more patience for this prejudice if he actually pronounced the unvoiced double "T" in his own Italian-derived last name.

[Biciclista]

and to add to my own confusion, my own name.
In Italy, the ch is pronounced K
At Ellis Island, my grandfather was told our name would now
have the ch sound as in cheese.
this wasn't uniform, and depending on who you ask, the name has other pronunciations.
My brother is the only male who carried on the family name and had sons.
his son calls himself this name
with a SH sound!! I corrected him but he ignored me. it's HIS name.

[shootingstar]

like Moscow, Idaho is not pronounced like Moscow, Russia and many many more.

Just curious. Then how are Americans supposed to pronounce Moscow, Idaho? (I know, I didn't ask how are non-Americans supposed to pronounce it. It's a place in Idaho that many non-Americans wouldn't use in daily language or at all because they didn't know the place with this same name spelling existed in the U.S.)

Until I started working for a German company I wasn't that sensitive that many German names/words starting with "J", are pronounced as: Y (yu.....) not as a hard "J".

ANd it is grating to the ear to hear Americans pronounce Iraq as "EYE-RACK". Prior to the war, I've always understood as 'EER-RACK". Hopefully the Iraquis themselves, have stuck to their own pronounciation when they speak English and used prior to war. I'd rather follow pronounciation of the originating country for the name itself. Americanization of original foreign words isn't necessarily the good thing. Other non-English languages slide a number of vowels and consonants together or have accent/tonal inflections that are miniscule but highly critical that it can alter the meaning of word if enunciated incorrectly.

Therefore Jeanne, is not "Jean", as with a hard "N" for the Anglo version. Jeanne pronounciation for this original French feminine name: GEHNN. Soft sliding "J", as in "gentle", with a short "E" (not long "E"), longer drawn-out "N".

I guess I'm a stickler for pronounciation....after memories of learning English as a second language from kindergarten to Gr. 2. Many phoenetic drills to correct my consonant blends of str, th, sh, sch, ch, r, etc. common problems for people with mother tongue language of Chinese. Even though I was born and raised in Canada.

[Biciclista]

MoscO

you don't pronounce the w

[OakLeaf]

I'd rather follow pronounciation of the originating country for the name itself.

... so when you're speaking in English, how do you say "China?" "Germany?" "Italy?" "Paris?" "Spain?" "Barcelona?" Etc., etc., etc.

Most European countries had different names in English before the Americas were even colonized. And likewise, in their own languages they said "Angleterre," "Inglaterra," "Inghilterra," etc., for the country that called itself England. So it's not like this is a new thing. It's probably the same thing with Asian countries and languages, I just don't know any. (Well, I DO know that "China" and "Japan" are not names that are used in China or Japan!) As I understand it, Moscow, Russia, is pronounced (and spelled) "Moskva" in Russian - no terminal "o" and no issue whether it's pronounced "ow" or "oh."

IMO it sounds really affected when people pronounce foreign place names using sounds that aren't used (at all, or in a particular sequence) in English. Yes, that's the correct way to say the place names in the respective language, but it's essentially inserting a foreign word into an English sentence.

[Biciclista]

yep, this is the tower of babel here. No right answers. And it sounds strange to me to say "Naples" instead of Napoli.

Most Americans have NO idea that all people in other cities (and countries) in the world spell and pronounce their place names differently than WE do.

[shootingstar]

ANd it is grating to the ear to hear Americans pronounce Iraq as "EYE-RACK". Prior to the war, I've always understood as 'EER-RACK". Hopefully the Iraquis themselves, have stuck to their own pronounciation when they speak English and used prior to war. I'd rather follow pronounciation of the originating country for the name itself. Americanization of original foreign words isn't necessarily the good thing. Other non-English languages slide a number of vowels and consonants together or have accent/tonal inflections that are miniscule but highly critical that it can alter the meaning of word if enunciated incorrectly.

No, Oak, we follow the pronounication of what the majority of Iraquis themselves when they speak English. So the big question was how they pronounced "Iraq" in English before the war existed, before many Americans even knew a place like Iraq existed in their minds.

By the way, the French spelling of 'Jeanne' is genuinely a legal name can be/ is used by someone whose first language is English. Therefore it's actually more graceful to pronounce it as the French did if one wishes to use that spelling.

If people in Tawain ask me to address the name of their country as Tawain, instead of China...which a highly loaded political perspective, then I would bend to their wishes. If people in Hong Kong, prefer to refer Hong Kong instead of China, if one is there, then I would adjust my name reference of their "territory" accordingly. I am not the citizen/resident of that area and have no right to impose linguistically what I believe is the correct English term.

For names of people and names of countries, it's best that the correct English pronounciation should be led by the owners of that name. If not, then default to whatever "dialect" version, whatever pronounciation deviations occur.

We ask immigrants to master English so they can compete in for educational spots, jobs and to make themselves understood for social acceptance. There is alot of pressure to assimilate to the English-speaking world.. at a high price which is loss of the mother tongue...which leads to generational divides/gaps/serious communication conflicts. And by the same token, from us, as dominant English speakers, it can't be too much to ask us to integrate proper pronounciation of their names as they would prefer of English /unilingual speakers.

[shootingstar]

Anyway, we still haven't helped Crazycanuck with her original question.

Maybe if one knew the original language of the name it would help immensely with the pronunciation.

By now, I have mastered for German that Joop, Joachim, Jurgen, ..is Y.. pretty small potatoes. And Jacob, would have been totally acceptable in English dialogue with this German firm, with "Y" instead of hard "J" pronounciation, where I was in the suburbs of Vancouver. 1/4 of business conversation was in German, no English translation going on. So the German "Georg" is not George. It is hard "G", followed by "airg". A very common German male name. I was embarrassed I said George for first few months to this one engineer who said nothing to correct me. (He was probably tired of correcting people.) Once, I did use his correct German name pronounciation, he seemed to instinctively respond more quickly to me in conversation.

[OakLeaf]

The website I linked to is specific to the individual, as I said, though a little dated. It explains the three different pronounciations of Ann Beattie, Bob Beattie and Robert Beattie, for example....

I think the one CC linked to has some specific names and some general rules for names of people who aren't famous or who haven't gone into the database yet.

I'm still trying to figure out whether Valentino Rossi meant a not-so-subtle dig at his teammate this weekend when he pronounced his name "YOR-gay." That's neither an Italian nor a Spanish pronounciation! They've been teammates long enough that Vale knows how to say Jorge, I'm sure...

[Owlie]

DH likes to laugh at the way Ohioans (aka Ahahns) pronounce the names of places that are named after foreign cities. I'd have more patience for this prejudice if he actually pronounced the unvoiced double "T" in his own Italian-derived last name.

Versailles, pronounced Ver-sails. That grates on my ears every time I hear it.

[lph]

How you pronounce place names in a foreign country is interesting. Even 4 letter Oslo has an established pronounciation in English (Oz-low), that is quite different from the Norwegian (oosh-lou). Speaking English I use the English pronounciation, and yes, I'd think it a bit affected if English speakers used the Norwegian pronounciation. It would be like me talking about Paris as "Paree" because that's how the French say it.

But not many places in Norway have an established English pronounciation as far as I know, probably because we're a small country that doesn't figure much in the news or the history books And only a handful of towns that can pass for cities. For all these other place names I'd prefer English speakers to at least attempt the Norwegian pronounciation, because the on-the-spot Americanization sounds awful to my ears.

So for some reason that doesn't sound affected, just respectful. I have no idea why I sense a difference.

We also have some very heavy dialects here, which can lead to place names officially called one thing and locally called something almost completely different. Even I don't know if I should try to attempt the local dialect or not! Either way I'd be laughed at as a city girl...