Fabris softener!

[Karma007]

Some ethnic markets make a jello-ish dessert with agar agar, and Whole Foods carries a gelatin free one as well. I'm vegan and can reccomend some cookbooks, if you're interested. Anything by Isa Moskowitz (Vegan with a Vengence AND Vegan Cupcakes Take OVer The World are faves) or the Vegan Lunchbox (Jennifer McCann) . They're all easy to read, easy to make, and not too preachy.

[HoosierGiant]

Some ethnic markets make a jello-ish dessert with agar agar, and Whole Foods carries a gelatin free one as well. I'm vegan and can reccomend some cookbooks, if you're interested. Anything by Isa Moskowitz (Vegan with a Vengence AND Vegan Cupcakes Take OVer The World are faves) or the Vegan Lunchbox (Jennifer McCann) . They're all easy to read, easy to make, and not too preachy.

Thanks a million!!!

[OakLeaf]

If you just get the agar plain (either powdered or in sticks or sheets, which just take a little longer to dissolve) you can make jello with any type of fruit juice. Way cheaper and healthier than pre-packaged desserts!

Plus, since the thickening agent is a soluble fiber rather than a protein with gelatin, it's actually good for you.

[gnarwhal]

Some ethnic markets make a jello-ish dessert with agar agar, and Whole Foods carries a gelatin free one as well. I'm vegan and can reccomend some cookbooks, if you're interested. Anything by Isa Moskowitz (Vegan with a Vengence AND Vegan Cupcakes Take OVer The World are faves) or the Vegan Lunchbox (Jennifer McCann) . They're all easy to read, easy to make, and not too preachy.

YAY! Another Vegan cyclist who loves Isa! I have VwaV on my wishlist but people keep buying me Veganomicon...i have 3 copies now.

[indigoiis]

Hm. For all we know, vegetables have consciousness, too.

I only eat rocks.

[OakLeaf]

Ahem. I don't think there's any need to ridicule other people's life choices, which possibly have a religious or spiritual basis. (And note that it's only Buddhist and Hindu religious traditions that make "consciousness" a foundation of vegetarianism; Christian vegetarianism is historically based more on what eating the animal does to one's own body and spiritual state).

I've been slipping lately, for a number of reasons that I won't go into here, but I know very clearly which creatures I'm prepared to kill and which ones I'm not. What did/would you do when it's your turn to wring the chicken's neck or cut the steer's throat? Have you ever been to a branding?

This thread started by talking about horse byproduct. Many people who aren't vegetarians recoil at the idea of slaughtering certain animals that are capable of forming deep emotional bonds with humans. Horse slaughter is now banned in the USA (whether you approve of that legislation or not). Meat from dogs or cats - while common in some cultures - wouldn't last half a second on US grocery shelves.

[Aggie_Ama]

My family and DH's are ranchers though so you can guess we will never embrace the lifestyle but I will never go to the slaughter house again. So even the carnivores draw the line and I don't care about others choices. But I must say a rock would really hurt my teeth.

When I was in high school my best friend was from Indian and ate primarily vegetarian, although chicken was eaten. I would give anything to have a big helping of her mom's Samosas again. Heaven in triangle and no Indian restuarant can hold a candle to hers. I could die just thinking of them. She used to make them for me for driving her home from college for the weekend and tell me I could freeze them but they never lasted long enough.

[Karma007]

I don't judge other poeples diets. I simply believe that if every single person did a little more, we'd all be better off. If you can't give up meat, fine, just be aware of what you're eating, and what is being given to it before you eat it. If you're still okay with it, cool. We're all friends. I choose to avoid animal products where possible. My cycling shoes are leather. Does it make me a bad vegan or an avid cyclist? I don't know. I don't really care.
Regardless, I am thrilled to have another vegan cyclist on board.
And, to stay on topic, I threw away my dryer sheets last night. This has been an informative thread.

ETA- Vegan Cupcakes Take of The World is one of the most awesome cookbooks ever, no matter what you eat!

[indigoiis]

I apologize - I was not ridiculing. The rocks part was definitely being silly, yes, but I was making a valid point. Vegetables are living organisms and we really don't know that they don't have consciousness or feel pain. Where does one draw the line?

[Blueberry]

Where does one draw the line?

For me, it's what I could kill myself and where I can sleep at night. Yes, we all have to eat something (and pleasantly crunchy as rocks are, I doubt my digestive tract would like them). And yes, I don't eat beef, but I wear leather shoes. I haven't found an acceptable substitute. I know it's an inconsistency, and I can live with it. Most people never think about it.

However, I agree - being aware is key. If you choose to eat beef, etc. - find a local source. Make sure you know what the animals are being fed, and that they're humanely treated. And if each person gave up meat just a few days or even meals a week, we'd all be a lower burden on the planet.

CA

[Karma007]

I was vegetarian in midlle school and high school, until I got a job in a delicatessen.. As to to question of where one draws the line, I read Fast Food Nation a few years ago and developed an interest in where my food was coming from, and the less than honerable dealings of processed food manufacturing. I went vegetarian as more of an experiment more than anything else. I decided to try it for a day and it not only stuck, it evolved. Everyone has their limits, and their reasons for doing what they do. I don't preach, but I do encourage (here, try these most awesome cupcakes...) people to be aware of their food, whatever they chose to eat. The idea of hormones and antibiotics in my food is just as nasty to me as persticides on my apples.
That said, I am going to back out of this conversation (if I can keep my damn mouth shut) b/c discussions on food, poilitcs, religion and who is most evil on Survivor never end well.

[indigoiis]

That was a great movie.

I guess I ask the line question because, as a former vegetarian and mother of a (getting stricter by the day) lifetime vegetarian teen, I get frustrated when I am told, "you can't buy that yogurt [jam/cheese/cracker] because it has rennit [geletan/animal spit/ground up fingernails] (sp?) in it" or when I get the face after I have prepared a healthy vegetarian dinner and she asks me, "what did you put in it?" She aches to travel and I told her that while I am a slave to her particular food needs, when she travels, particularly in Asia, she will not be able to question the food preparers. That in fact it sometimes is rude in certain countries to do so.

My DH (her stepfather) likes to joke about eating cardboard and rocks. It's good to have a little humor thrown in... but yeah, definitely frustrating when our local grocery store (not a Whole Foods by any means) does not have the big-city selection that would enable me to $$$shop$$$ for these vegetarian-approved alternatives. And when she puts her nose up at plain steamed veggies and rice, I get a little dubious as to the benefits of being so strict.

[gnarwhal]

I admire your teenage daughter for being so strict, bravo to her! And to you for helping her manage this! *applause*

I moved from vegetarian to vegan as i could no longer stomach the welfarist approach being commonly bandied about in the UK...the "it doesn't matter if they die so that we can eat them, so long as they have a nice life" approach. Now i favour a more abolitionist take which has me thinking that actually who are we to impose our will on any sentient beings? What gives us the right to take a life or exploit those who for some reason people see as lesser creatures.

And on the whole do vegetables feel pain thing - when you brand a cow it hurts it, it makes a noise and registers pain. When you brand an aubergine it sizzles and goes nicely with hoummus!

[Karma007]

I admire your teenage daughter for being so strict, bravo to her! And to you for helping her manage this! *applause*

I moved from vegetarian to vegan as i could no longer stomach the welfarist approach being commonly bandied about in the UK...the "it doesn't matter if they die so that we can eat them, so long as they have a nice life" approach. Now i favour a more abolitionist take which has me thinking that actually who are we to impose our will on any sentient beings? What gives us the right to take a life or exploit those who for some reason people see as lesser creatures.

And on the whole do vegetables feel pain thing - when you brand a cow it hurts it, it makes a noise and registers pain. When you brand an aubergine it sizzles and goes nicely with hoummus!

That's funny! I can hear the sizzle of grilled vegys now!

[shootingstar]

That was a great movie.

I guess I ask the line question because, as a former vegetarian and mother of a (getting stricter by the day) lifetime vegetarian teen, I get frustrated when I am told, "you can't buy that yogurt [jam/cheese/cracker] because it has rennit [geletan/animal spit/ground up fingernails] (sp?) in it" or when I get the face after I have prepared a healthy vegetarian dinner and she asks me, "what did you put in it?" She aches to travel and I told her that while I am a slave to her particular food needs, when she travels, particularly in Asia, she will not be able to question the food preparers. That in fact it sometimes is rude in certain countries to do so.

My DH (her stepfather) likes to joke about eating cardboard and rocks. It's good to have a little humor thrown in... but yeah, definitely frustrating when our local grocery store (not a Whole Foods by any means) does not have the big-city selection that would enable me to $$$shop$$$ for these vegetarian-approved alternatives. And when she puts her nose up at plain steamed veggies and rice, I get a little dubious as to the benefits of being so strict.

Don't know how old your daughter is..but soon it might help she prepares some of the food herself. Just to understand what it is required to be vegan in meal planning and recipes.

It won't be Asia she might have problems for vegan options, it might be some parts of South America. We recently heard some real stories of serious meat eating cultures there from touring cyclists. Especially outside of big cities.