Marketing women's Cycling Products

[Jiffer]

I have a women's cycling product problem which is a little different than most. I have extremely narrow feet, which is common, but I also have very long feet (size 10). I couldn't find a shoe that fit my narrow feet snugly, as a cycling shoe should. My first pair were way too wide. I finally narrowed down my search to Sidi's, but called LBS's all over the place and searched all over the internet for a women's 10 (or whatever the equivalent is in cm's) ... in a narrow. After much time and frustration, I finally found out that they do not MAKE a women's shoe in that length. My next best option, therefore, was to buy the men's narrow, which I did. And they are "mostly" just right, probably the closest I'll ever get without going custom.

[maillotpois]

I'm with Jiffer.

I want a WOMEN's cycling shoe in a size 11. No one makes them. No one. Would you ladies wear men's loafers? Men's athletic shoes? Womens' feet, regardless of size, are shaped differently than mens'. Smaller in the heel, etc. So men's shoes, while "ok" in length, don't actually "FIT".

There is nothing available in my size in womens' cycling shoes. Period.

[Bluetree]

Hi Susan,

Again, you astonish me with your quick and comprehensive responses to your customers' needs. Thank you! On a few of your points:

No women's Ergos. But, on the bright side, For S'09 (which we've already received) Sidi has added a carbon sole to the Women's Genius 5 Pro Carbon http://teamestrogen.com/prodSD_1250776.html This shoe is replacing the nylon-soled women's Genius 5 (which we have on sale now, in limited sizes remaining)

What amazes me is that Sidi created the Women's Genius 6.6 and they started the sizing at 38. That is the equivalent of a 7-7.5 in standard shoe sizing. However, walk into any department store and you will see women's sizes start at 6.0 (with smaller selections at 5.5). And as anyone with smaller feet will attest to, there are just as many women fighting for the 6.5s as there are for the 8.5's at Nordstrom's Anniversary Sale!

And I know your hands are tied to whatever the manufacturer/distributer sends you, but come on.... there's no way I would pay $300-$500 for a pair of shoes with a pink sheen or with blue flowers.

If such patterns are desirable... why not just make the shoes plain and offer lycra shoe covers with different colors/designs on them? Lycra covers are cheap, easily washable and are infinitely more matchable!

• Safety-minded gear that not baggy and dowdy-looking.
Give me some more examples about what you're talking about here.

Ok, the standard "safety" color seems to the the same screaming yellow windvest/jacket by PI that everyone on the planet wears. It's useful and practical... but there are a lot of riders who wouldn't be caught dead riding their $6000 rigs with a flapping yellow jacket. (I go hill climbing at 4am sometimes, so I see them out there)

Why not offer accessories that are as stylish as their are functional? Keep making multi-paneled, multi-colored gloves, but add reflectors or reflective piping/fabric to the outside of the pinky finger, which will make them noticeable to a car coming up from behind you, as you are signalling.

Better yet, make matching arm warmers with the same reflectors in a bold racing stripe on the back of the arm. I have these fleecy arm warmers by Rapha:


Why can't the white portion be reflective? If multi-paneling is too expensive, why can't reflective ink be printed on to standard colored ones? I've seen little "dots" of the stuff on many jerseys... why not accessories, too? Altura has one, but I can see such a design added to the back side in bolder stripes, maybe even something tribal and cool looking.



As for jerseys, it someone can make them with multi-panels, why can't some of the the panels be made for safety-purposes as well as looking good? I love EO's Diba jersey (I own two) but when I look at my black/white one, I often ponder what it would be like if the white inserts were somehow made reflective.. it appears white in the daytime but reflects the light of oncoming cars at night. Same with the Iral knickers.


Here's another one:

Great idea. I would feel well seen in this.
But a.) it's fugly and b.) I won't wear it because it will flap like a helicopter when I ride. But I do not see how this idea cannot be modified to please the discriminating cyclist.

I can see an unexplored wilderness when it comes to other items as well: from reflective helmets with space for removeable lights/LEDs (Fizik already started it with their saddle) to reflective patches that can be velcro'd/snapped on when needed.

I guess my point is... why don't manufacturers think outside the box a bit and stop thinking that the only way to promote safety if with yellow windjackets that are as uncomfortable as they are uninspired? Safety, performance and looks do not need to be mutually exclusive.

/rant #2

Thanks for listening Susan. You're the best.

[Eden]

That's a real bummer about Sidi shoes.... I take a 37 in Sidis, so they've effectively shut me out of buying any of their shoes - and they even run small. I generally find a size 6 to be big in regular shoes.

[SouthernBelle]

I, for one, always appreciate hearing what people want to see more of. And believe me, we DO pass that info on. Sometimes I talk until I'm blue in the face, but it does produce results. For example. for S'09 Pearl Izumi is making almost every single thing they make in XS AND XXL, as a direct result of both customer requests we shared AND data we provided to them on sales of those sizes from other vendors. It's a huge leap forward for them, and I fully expect we'll see the sale of Pearl increase as a direct result.

But won't that be offset by their latest ads?

[Susan Otcenas]

What amazes me is that Sidi created the Women's Genius 6.6 and they started the sizing at 38. .......And I know your hands are tied to whatever the manufacturer/distributer sends you, but come on.... there's no way I would pay $300-$500 for a pair of shoes with a pink sheen or with blue flowers.

If such patterns are desirable... why not just make the shoes plain and offer lycra shoe covers with different colors/designs on them? Lycra covers are cheap, easily washable and are infinitely more matchable!

Bluetree - I'm in the middle of some stuff here in the office right now, so I can't get to all your points right at the moment, but I did want to talk about this one real quick.

re: 6.6 & starting @ 38. My understanding from talking to the folks @ Sidi was that it was a cost-benefit problem. They report that the molds for each size shoe are very expensive, and that they simply can't sell enough of the smaller sizes in the very expensive shoes to offset the cost of the molds. They DO sell enough in the less expensive shoes to offset the molds, which is why you can find smaller SIDIs in other styles. This is what I'm told; take it for what you will.

re: the blue flowers: The new blue flowered shoe is the Genius 5 Pro Carbon seen here: http://www.teamestrogen.com/prodSD_1250762.html . It DOES have a plain black counterpart. See the black version here: http://www.teamestrogen.com/prodSD_1250776.html There is a slight difference in the ratchet mechanism but they are otherwise identical in feature set. I'm also delighted to report that both the blue flower & the black are available down to size 36 this year, so for those women with small feet wanting a carbon sole - this is your ticket. I have a customer who has been asking for 35s for years, and I still can't help *her* out, but at least this year is an improvement over last.

Re: the pink sheen. In 2007, Sidi had the women's 5.5 in a plain white (with a very narrow blue 'pinstripe'). In 2008, just the Luxury (pink)version went forward. It was one of our best selling women's sidi shoes. For 2009, there is once again only the Luxury at the 5.5 level. The 6.6 for 2009 is white with two narrow pinstripes - one yellow & one purple. I chose NOT to carry it; besides the odd color stripes, it's also $529.00. I think there would be a market for this shoe, even at this price, if they'd dropped the purple/yellow bit, but I felt it was just too spendy to be so color specific. We can always special order it, though, if someone wants it.

Finally, I've already asked the Sidi product manager at Veltec (the US distributor) about planned color options for 2010 (released in F'09). Sounds like they are still in the planning stages, so if you have an opinion, now's the time to voice it!

Susan

[Eden]

You have more up to date info than the Sidi web site.... I'd assumed that since they were switching from nylon to carbon soles on the Genius 5's that they'd also be offering only 39's and up - as all their other carbon shoes are that sizing. It's nice to know that they will be still offering 37's as I rather like my Sidis. Not so sure I care for the flowers..... but black broil your feet - my husband had actual burns! on the tops of his feet from one long hot race..

[Susan Otcenas]

You have more up to date info than the Sidi web site....

For whatever reason, they have not yet updated their website with the new 2009 shoes, even though we dealers already have them in stock. OTOH, we ALWAYS take 1st available ship dates, so it could be that the majority of retailers are still selling 2008 shoes.

[7rider]

Finally, I've already asked the Sidi product manager at Veltec (the US distributor) about planned color options for 2010 (released in F'09). Sounds like they are still in the planning stages, so if you have an opinion, now's the time to voice it!

Color options?? How about SIZE 11!!!! Taking those shoes up to 43.5 or even 44 would be awesome! Thanks!

[malkin]

My wish is for some system of you-choose-your-bottoms (shorts, tights, knickers, bibs, etc) with you-choose-your-chamois with some simple attachment.

It seems like riders have their favorites, and then manufacturers change the chamois or the pants, and we're back to square one.

It's a sensitive area fercryin'outloud--no wonder we're so picky about it!

[Velobambina]

Bluetree and I are soul sisters when it comes to cycling clothing (Exte Ondo addicts), so I echo her "wants." Particularly a desire for affordable but good quality bib knickers and bib tights.

I love EO's jerseys, particularly the winter ones. My one beef with the warm weather (SS) jerseys is the shrinking back pocket size. I like the Diba jersey (08 jersey) -- fabric, styling, fit -- but dang, those back pockets are tiny. The Sanon from 07 had more generous back pockets (but the fabric wasn't as cooling in hot weather as the Diba).

One thing to add to the list: high quality WARM shoe covers for mountain-style cycling shoes.

[tzvia]

The issue isn't simply of 'marketing', it's one of _understanding_ what women want/need in the cycling community and being willing to provide it. I thought that finding 38.5 Sidis locally was a bear; everything was mens mens mens mens. . Womens shoes, sure- how about some nice ones that look like tennis shoes or hikers-. So even while the shoes I want exist, finding them at a local LBS is problematic. The few that have a pair want full list! No wonder I am buying more and more on the Internet. I want to support the local LBSs but not at full list price. So you girls who need size 10 or 11, trust me, we woman with normal feet aren't doing much better with the local LBS. Unless you want hiking MTB shoes.

My beef with 'womens' stuff is gloves. They make them pink and call them 'womens'. Padding is an inch thick in hard lumps. So I buy mens small (Rock Racing gloves are the bomb). Don't the manufactures get it? Some women want performance gloves. Pearl Isumi is the worst offender- their womens gloves are horrible and I don't care if they are pink and light blue with flowers, thank you.

Again, the LBS; womens saddles? Sure, big wide beach cruiser weighs 5lbs. Great. Another sale lost to the Internet.

Yes things are better than they were 20 years ago. I own two new bikes that are sized to fit women. The toptube isn't longer than the Titanic. The drops are shallow and the crank arms are 165. They aren't beach cruisers. And I found them both in stock at the LBS, הַלְלוּיָהּ! But they didn't have the shoes...

[motochick]

http://www.boure.com/catalogue.html

For some of your clothing desires, and they have pads wide enough for our sitbones! Good stuff.

Brenda

[Irulan]

I'm going to be the devils advocate here. Keep in mind I totally get how frustrating all this is. But from a manufacturer's viewpoint, it's really difficult to invest tens thousands of dollars into product development and marketing for a product that only a very small segment of the population will want to purchase, much less actually purchase. Usually it will create a loss.

This is why you will be more likely to find need/niche specific products from small, independently owned small and web businesses. Some people view this as an opportunity to develop and create a product, and then market the hell out of it.

[Susan Otcenas]

The few that have a pair want full list! No wonder I am buying more and more on the Internet. I want to support the local LBSs but not at full list price.

I'm probably going to regret this....

There are so many things wrong with your statement.

For one, you imply that someone charging you full list is ripping you off. That's simply not true. Margins are small in this business. Why do you want to deny business owners the ability to make some money? It might come as a shock to you, but most people are in business to earn a living. If you remove the profit motivation, most people simply wouldn't bother to start a business at all. Most business owners, me included, work far longer hours, evenings and weekends, than the average non-owner. We do it because we love what we do. Nonetheless, I wouldn't work this hard, for this long, if there was no financial reward in it for me. We owners work our tails off, and there's nothing wrong with our making some money from that hard work.

Secondly - service and selection don't come free. You want good service? That requires hiring good employees. Who need to be paid. Who are paid from the margin on the products we sell. You want selection? Where do you suppose the money comes from for business owners to finance their inventory? Money-losing businesses can't afford to hire good people, or keep a wide selection of product on hand.

Now, I should tell you I love to find something on sale as much as anyone else. And you'll find end of season and prior season items on sale @ TE. Great bargains to be had on some of this stuff. But a full-price business model allows me to hire great staff, have a huge selection, and take home something for myself at the end of the month. And I simply will not apologize for that. I hope we attract customers that value the service and selection we provide, and who recognize that those things don't come cheap.

Susan