i made a fit app't!!

[alpinerabbit]

So you actually have inspired me to go for a fit myself.

1-finding the correct saddle height - check. no change
2-finding the correct fore/aft position of the saddle check - 4 cm forward(!!)
3-figuring out whether you may need some tilt or you can ride a leveled saddle (most people can, some strange people like me cannot...) sorta check - my SMP undulates in all directions, hard to tell if it has a tilt at all
4-finding out if you need any stem adjustments check - he took out a couple spacers
5-finding the optimal position of your handlebar check- they were turned up a bit to make up for the whole shebang moving down.
A more lengthy (but much more useful) fitting process takes care of all of the above plus:
6-finding the optimal tension on your pedals - no need here
7-fitting the cleats in the correct position on your shoes. This is done with a powermeter . check- no power meter but he moved them so I actually have some float left towards the outside.
8-finding the optimal position of the brake levers/shifters on the handlebars. these were already good.
9-moving and readjusting cables depending on your riding style (% of time on the hoods, tops, drops) so that the equipment does not get 'in your way'. no issue there.
10-finding the optimal (most aero, less disturbing for your posture) position for accessories like waterbotle cages or cyclocomputer. no issue either
11-making you pedal for a while going through all your gears and reading the powermeter. no check on the power meter but he watched.

I described my little aches to him, he said it was most likely from sitting too far back. He actually told me to keep my right knee a bit more knock-kneed than I've been riding. For that reason he angled my cleats more inwards.

He emphasized that I should concentrate on the pull phase. I was also shown how to "pull" on my aerobars just so much to get a continuous arch of power down to my lower back, glutes, hamstrings. This to save my quads and calves for the run.

He said, and he said Cervélo had used data from 50'000 US and UK soldiers, that women and men actually are not that different in proportions than what lots of bike marketers tell you to push WSD...

I just went for a 25k ride and it feels good, I notice the lowered handlebars in my neck - but that will come along. My outer calves were burning, that's not what the doctor told me. Have to check with him.

he also taught me how to relax the feet and let them sink into the footbed (I don't know if I quite got it) and it felt better.

[TxDoc]

3-figuring out whether you may need some tilt or you can ride a leveled saddle (most people can, some strange people like me cannot...) sorta check - my SMP undulates in all directions, hard to tell if it has a tilt at all

SMP!!! Interesting!!! A little while ago a couple of mechanics in the shop were debating on where to level the SMP carbon, the back, the nose... it was a funny discussion

He said, and he said Cervélo had used data from 50'000 US and UK soldiers, that women and men actually are not that different in proportions than what lots of bike marketers tell you to push WSD...

Ha! That makes ME feel a LOT better, thank you!!! Every time I try and ride a so-called 'women specific' bicycle I find that the geometry does not fit me in any way. I don't know enough about it - but really I have always wondered about the WSD thing... Glad I'm in good company!

As per inspiring you to get a fitting service... here is some more temptation: my boyfriend decided to give himself the ultimate treat and we went and got him a wind tunnel session with the pro fitter. He wanted to check his TT bike setup to the millimeter!
Well, I was skeptical (never done wt testing before) but I have to say looking at the stats on the computer while they were testing him - a few mm made a lot of difference! It was quite expensive (about $1k for a few hours), but the back ache issues he had sometimes are completely gone, and he found out that he is much faster now. So all in all, he is very happy he did it.

[Eden]

Ha! That makes ME feel a LOT better, thank you!!! Every time I try and ride a so-called 'women specific' bicycle I find that the geometry does not fit me in any way. I don't know enough about it - but really I have always wondered about the WSD thing... Glad I'm in good company!

I think they should probably quit calling it WSD..... there are men out there proportioned this way too... They definitely should not stop making them though!!! I'm one of the people who totally benefits from it. I cannot get a decent fit with a non WSD bike - my arms and torso are way to short.

[alpinerabbit]

I once read (on Sheldon Brown perhaps?) that bikes used to really only have a variable seat tube. This means the smaller the bike, the proportionally overlong the top tube would get.

Enter my reasoning: Since blokes only go down to a 52 or so it does not hurt yet. But if you go down to a 44 or something the top tube is way too long, so they needed to shorten it, and since 99.8% of all small bikes are ridden by women, call it WSD (the 0.2% being vertically challenged men).

Re: the wind tunnel - I'm not good enough for that

[elk]

I'm a little confused by this WSD...I have notions about my shape...

He pushed my saddle pretty much all the way back on the rail, raised the post about an inch and also raised my bar and brought it in a bit closer.

Yet...he said the bike was as small I should go height wise....but a larger frame would be too long in the reach. So I'm at the edge of too tall for the frame, at the other edge of too short for reach.

I always thought I was just short everywhere, but apparently I have those longer girl femurs...

[Eden]

I once read (on Sheldon Brown perhaps?) that bikes used to really only have a variable seat tube. This means the smaller the bike, the proportionally overlong the top tube would get.

Enter my reasoning: Since blokes only go down to a 52 or so it does not hurt yet. But if you go down to a 44 or something the top tube is way too long, so they needed to shorten it, and since 99.8% of all small bikes are ridden by women, call it WSD (the 0.2% being vertically challenged men).

Re: the wind tunnel - I'm not good enough for that

I've heard the same thing - though when this was true bikes generally only came in 2 or 3 "sizes" anyway..... with only a 52, 54, or 56 people on both ends of the spectrum were pretty well out of luck....

Bikes started coming smaller with variable tt lengths before the label "WSD", but they were still proportioned for people with longer torsos and arms and the very smallest sizes (yes generally used by women) were not around yet. My first 10 speed was probably about a 48- which yeah, I could stand over, but the top tube was about a 52.5, and I really need under a 50 - I now have a 49.5 and could really go shorter.

WSD does have some other connotations too - usually it means that the frame sizes will go smaller, and some other things, like handlebar width and crank length will be scaled down too. Some WSD bikes have short reach levers - but all of these things could just as easily be called "small people design" as "women's design"

[Russell@UEF]

Not all WSD bikes are created equal. When done right, it is a full range of sizes from small to large with appropriate geometry, and components to adjust for the sizes. In reality, these bikes can fit men or women. I am a professional bike fitter by career and I see PLENTY of guys and girls that fall into the short torso/long leg category and this is the most common person that has a bike geometry challenge. But there are people of both sexes with the opposite problem, as well. Unfortunately, so companies simply use this as marketing to sell different colored bikes.

You also can get a bike fit before you get a new bike. usually there is a bike out there that will fit the person, it's just tracking it down.

Also, if you have pain when cycling, don't always think about the bike shop. most big cities have health care specialists that specialize in cycling and do bike fitting, as well. Erik Moen and kit Vogels in Seattle, Dave Fleckenstien in Boise, an myself in Portland.

RC

[mayanorange]

Elk- glad you enjoyed your fitting. I finally got re-fit now that the stem we ordered at my fitting a while ago came in. I'm kinda glad it took about a month to come in- I got to ride more, get stronger and really feel what changes he made the first time (new bar, stem, seat position). Of course, I've also changed out my saddle and shoes since then, so he ran through everything again and commented that I looked much more relaxed and comfortable on it this time. The new stem is the specialized on with a shim system wheree you can change the angle by rotating or using different shims, so if I get stronger and want to lower the bars, I can just play with different shims. Pics before and after:

[alpinerabbit]

Good for you for getting an SMP, although the beak looks a tad high to me!

[mayanorange]

Yeah, the fitter said that too and rocked it down a notch, but I really feel like I'm falling forward unless it's like that. Dunno, guess my pelvic structure is weird.

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Yeah, the fitter said that too and rocked it down a notch, but I really feel like I'm falling forward unless it's like that. Dunno, guess my pelvic structure is weird.

Just don't catch the back of your shorts on it when your hopping back up on the saddle at the green light.

[elk]

that saddle is INTENSE!!! I love looking at the little adjustments.

one thing I'm noticing is that my quads (muscles at front of thighs) are much more in play....probably where that sense of power is coming from!

my hands are still sore, but i have ways to move them around now that are helpful; i also think it's my laptop causing the problem that riding just underlines.

(nice ventura, BTW...LOVE my Jamis)

[mayanorange]

Just don't catch the back of your shorts on it when your hopping back up on the saddle at the green light.

I'm super extra careful getting into it for that reason! One of these days I'll snag and crash (clipped in by then).