Road handlebar angst

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

For whatever it's worth, I do not agree with lowering your bars, Elk.
The Jamis is a touring bike, not a racing bike. I think doing this will open yet another can of worms and compound your problems even further.

Ideally, a good LBS could help you with dialing in your bike fit. Please consider it.
But in the meantime....

The new picture looks good to me, and I hope the shims are helping you brake reach problem that you started out with. I love your description of your Jamis as a little Morgan horse- it looks just like one!!

I see that you have your saddle all the way back- that's good for now and will help keep your weight off your hands. But I think you have your bars tilted upwards too much. A good starting place is to have the tops of the bars be somewhere near level.
If the new bars feel too cramped and narrow, they could well be causing your hand pain, so possibly just put your old comfier bars back on? You wanted to get rid of the bar padding anyway, so....
On the old pictures, it almost looks to me that your leg is straightening out too straight on the pedal downstroke. If your leg straightens all the way when pedaling, then you should lower your seat a bit until your leg 'almost' straightens. Another indication of a too high seat setting is if you find your hips are rocking from side to side as you pedal. Ideally your hips should be relatively still while pedaling.

One thing we tend to do while riding touring bikes is to sit up straight and straighten our arms and hold ourselves up by leaning on our hands. Then we just let our stomachs sag down too and add more to the weight on our hands. Yes this can cause significant wrist/hand/shoulder pain. You can fix this without lowering your bars by breaking the sagging-back straight-arm habit posture. Concentrate on tipping your pelvis (by tipping your tailbone DOWN and your pubic bone UP) and curving your lower back more. (this will have added benefits of less pressure on your girly parts) As TxDoc noted, once your lower back is more curved (actually just less saggy) you can start training your core stomach muscles to hold you up instead of your weight on your hands.
I know this because I worked on correcting this posture habit in myself when riding my Rivendell touring bike with the bars the same height as the saddle. It really works if you keep reminding your body as you ride. That's my opinion based on my own experience on two touring geometry road bikes,
Remember, your bike is not a chair. Don't sit on it like you were just watching tv. Float over your bike and be one with it. You are essentially walking and moving inside a marvelous machine.

[VeloVT]

OK, in full disclosure I have not read ALL of TXDOC's and Lisa's suggestions, because my attention span is short tonight.

My impression from your photos:
--you have too much setback on your seat.
--I agree with Lisa that your seat looks a tad high.
--I also agree with Lisa that in the NEW handlebar pics, your handlebar may be more comfortable rotated down a bit -- BUT, in the photos of you ON the bike, it looks like you could put the hoods up a teeny bit higher, in that second picture your wrists look bent downward a little too much.
--I don't think you need to lower your handlebars, per se, but I do think you look a little cramped in the front end/upper body. I think you should consider a LONGER stem that puts you out farther, but not necessarily lower. Remember this is in conjunction with bringing your seat forward a bit.. What Lisa says about using your core and legs and not holding yourself up with your arms/by locking your shoulders is really important too, though, and if you increase your reach you will have to be even more conscious of this.

My two or three cents that you can take or leave .

Your bike is very pretty. Growing up in Vermont, and being horse-crazy as a young girl, I've always had a place in my heart for Morgans .

I think you should schedule a real fitting at LBS even if you have to pay for it. It is worth it.

[TxDoc]

HIS new bike...the volpe should be ready soon...can't wait!!

Wow, so he got the new volpe... PICTURES???

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

Wow, so he got the new volpe... PICTURES???

Here's the thread about the Volpe:
http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=25676

[TxDoc]

Here's the thread about the Volpe

Thanks! how did I miss a thread with photos of a new bike, aahhhh!!!

[elk]

No volpe yet....but he's open until 7 this evening so maybe within the next hour???? oh well....it's too darn hot to even go outside!!

I love having your observations....all of them.... it's a matter of SEEING clearly and understanding how all the parts work as a whole....

I 'm not averse to getting a fitting...I just feel SO close to fine on the bike that I want to try and monkey a bit with it (yes, lisa, s l o w l y) ...while i'm looking for someone i would want to go to.

I have become quite mindful of my posture on the bike, remembering the conversations about the pelvis as a bowl...and making myself aware of the 3 pts of contact as I ride... i really DO listen...

My leg is bent a little on the downstroke and there is no rocking of the hips...I originally fixed the height to where my straight down leg was straight with my HEEL on the pedal...and I don't think I need to lower the seat...but I'll check it again as i revisit the fore/aft.

My saddle is actually pretty much in the middle of the post...maybe a little more rail showing behind.

SO...I do want to try a ride with the bars lowered that one spacer...it puts them level with the saddle.
I examined the level of the saddle closely and I think it's tilted maybe a cm or 2 nose down...so when I lift that I could also bring it forward a bit....although I DID bring it forward a little a few weeks ago and also rotated my bar down a little
SORRY the chronology of the pictures is just wacky....

I should just look for someone to do a mini fitting....just not a 2 hour dissection.
I'll post a call out for a recommendation here in PDX.

thanks!

[mayanorange]

Mini fitting sounds like it'd help- that's what I ended up with. I also felt super close, but couldn't figure out the nuance of which way to go. LBS offered seat and handlebar fitting for $50- he did seat height, fore/aft, then hooked me up with the wing pro narrower handlebar and worked on stem fitting. Still waiting for a new stem to get me just right, but it has made a huge difference. I also asked him all the angles he was setting things at and why, then went home and fit my hubby on our trainer a lot closer than he was. The LBS guy can just eyeball the handlebars a lot easier- I think I put DH in a better position, but maybe not 100% perfect.

[TxDoc]

I should just look for someone to do a mini fitting....just not a 2 hour dissection.

Hey the "2 hour dissection" is actually a lot of fun, and if you have a pro fitter you can learn a whole lot!!!
Good luck!

[elk]

I SENT IN A QUERY TO (sorry capslock) Michael Sylvester...so I'm on my way...

as far as handlebars go...would I be crazy to put my Ritchey Biomax bars BACK on? Now that i have the shims I bet they'd be great...and I miss that backsweep on the top that gave me more room...

And then I might sell the Cinellis which would be great for small hands and no interrupter brakes.

My Brooks tape !!!!...o jeez....i hope it's good for another wrap or 2!!!

I'd love to get the FSA wing compacts...but i'd need a new stem (mine is a 26.)
and I should wait until I get fit so if I need a longer or shorter one I'll know what to get!

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

as far as handlebars go...would I be crazy to put my Ritchey Biomax bars BACK on? Now that i have the shims I bet they'd be great...and I miss that backsweep on the top that gave me more room...

Why would you be crazy to put back bars that were comfortable for you to begin with?

I think if you are careful, the Brooks leather tape should be ok- it's leather, after all. Just be gentle and don't stretch it too hard. If you get rid of the gel padding it should give you an inch or two more tape to work with.

I agree with you in thinking to wait until after a fitting before buying any new stem. You never know what they might recommend.

[elk]

hey Lisa i was just looking a your new Luna pictures...are your bars wrapped with grey leather? what are you using at the ends (on the top)? Twine?

your seat looks higher than your bars...was that a gradual shift for you?
(I love yr saddle...looks well loved.)

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

hey Lisa i was just looking a your new Luna pictures...are your bars wrapped with grey leather? what are you using at the ends (on the top)? Twine?

your seat looks higher than your bars...was that a gradual shift for you?
(I love yr saddle...looks well loved.)

Hi Elk,
I actually painted my handlebar tape to match my saddlebag. (Like you, I am a visual artist and am handy at paint/color stuff).
I started a whole thread about it here, since I thought it might be of interest to others:
http://forums.teamestrogen.com/showthread.php?t=25700
I have ridden about 100 miles on them and they seem very durable.
Thanks for asking- I'm quite proud of how it turned out! I too think it looks like gray leather. Margo at Luna said it looked sweet.

As to seat height- my seat is the height it needs to be for my leg length. (remember, you shouldn't set your saddle height according to anything to do with your bars. Saddle height is either right or not right, pretty much based on your leg length)
As to the handlebar/stem height- Margo, the builder, set my stem and bars at that height based on my body measurements, my lack of back/neck problems with my other bike, and my riding style and goals. I vowed to myself that I wouldn't change anything about how she set it for the first two months til my body adapted to the new bike, and it seems now after 600 miles that I am quite comfortable on it exactly the way she set it up.

I'm still quite upright compared to racing bikes.
It's funny, you ride along feeling just as though you are bent way down like Lance Armstrong or something....then you catch a glimpse of yourself in a store window reflection and it looks like you're sitting bolt upright!
I have learned to relax and curl my lower back and keep my pelvis tipped with my tailbone down more. For me it's not arching the whole back, just curling the lower back and stomach region that is good. The curled lower back thing really helps me keep my weight floating evenly between my feet, butt and hands...and that keeps me comfortable.

[elk]

I did lower my bars one spacer re TxDoc's suggestion..and although today was a rather short ride (under 10miles all up hill and then all down) I noticed that my hands didn't hurt...and in fact, I felt the pressure on them was much relieved...

I still have my fitting next week...but I do like the bar lowered a bit...who woulda thunk it!!!!! thanks Doc!

[BleeckerSt_Girl]

I did lower my bars one spacer re TxDoc's suggestion..and although today was a rather short ride (under 10miles all up hill and then all down) I noticed that my hands didn't hurt...and in fact, I felt the pressure on them was much relieved...

I still have my fitting next week...but I do like the bar lowered a bit...who woulda thunk it!!!!! thanks Doc!

But you just changed back to your original comfier bars, eliminated the bar gel fat pads, and added brake shims, right? (correct me if I'm wrong) Hard to really tell then what change or combination of these four changes are making your hands happier. A longer ride will be more telling, but good that you are not in pain!
I should note that my new bike has slightly lower bars, and I like them that way.

[elk]

I haven't gone back to the old bars yet...still running the CInellis...but I did take the gel off the top. I think the lower position is working....my legs were sore last night...but they were burning like hell fire getting up the steep hills yesterday....so i think that's an in/out of shape thing.

I think I should have the bigger shims put in the brake...yr guy sent me two sizes and my guy put the smaller (thinner) one in...honestly I don't notice that much differance...in ease of braking....