What do you think?

[Tuckervill]

So yesterday, I took my husband out to the club ride for the first time. He did great and had a good time, but that's not the issue.

The issue is that there is a man who does this ride (a beginner's, no-drop ride, about 20-25 miles, 12-15 mph pace) who is very experienced. He brings his adult son, who is in some way developmentally disabled. Not Down Syndrome, but something of similar consequence that keeps him from living on his own. I'll just call him R. R has poor eyesight but wears glasses. He doesn't appear to be anymore vision impaired than me with my glasses on. He rides well, if you ask me--I didn't know he was disabled until I was told, and had had a chat or two with him about his bike once or twice before that, and I had no clue he was disabled. Once I was told he had poor eyesight, I made sure to watch out for him a little more, tell him about the obstacles, and mostly interact with him on his level to make his ride as enjoyable as mine. R has been riding for about 18 months.

Well, yesterday, we went out on the ride, and a new woman was there. I never got to introduced to her, but I'll call her T. We had a great ride and was on our way back, in the last third of the ride. We were approaching a one lane bridge and were about to cross when a car came around the curve and decided not to slow down to let us proceed across the bridge. Being a few lengths out at the front, I put on the brakes and yelled "car up" and I could hear the chorus and everyone stopping and then someone yelling, "car back". Then I heard a crash, and turned around just in time to see R and T tangled up together and T rolling off her bike into the ditch, and R rolling off onto the pavement.

Long and short of it--T banged her knee, probably not seriously, and her bike (Specialized Roubiax) was okay. She was really more mad if you ask me. The car behind us happened to be the owner of the store that sponsors the ride (an outdoor store that does bikes, not just a bike shop, so he's not hands-on, but his car is all painted up in store logos, and we happened to be RIGHT in front of his long driveway). I asked T if she wanted a ride backand he gladly loaded her up and took her in.

R banged up his knee and elbow on the pavement, and his bike took a little beating, but he finished the ride. The ride leader, M, had stayed back with R for most of the way, but on this stretch he was kind of in the front, and he blames himself for the accident. R's dad stays with him, a lot, too, and since I know about his condition I help him out on occasion when appropriate, too.

I didn't see what happened. R said to me, "I was stopping and she moved." T said a couple of times in the ensuing melee that R ran into her. After we resumed, another rider who was behind them and saw it said it was her fault. I compared stories a little and it appears to me it's impossible to tell who did what, and it doesn't matter.

I'm wondering now if T knew R was disabled? I don't think she did. I think she should have been told, so she could use that information in just such an instance. I'm not saying he caused the wreck, because I don't think he did. I think it was just an accident. I'm wondering if she finds out he is disabled will she be upset about and will she be justified?

What do you think?

Karen

[singletrackmind]

An opinion...
Accidents happen. She needs not know anything. R's apparently been riding just fine all these months so being involved in a single crash that a witness says isn't his fault shouldn't be a big deal. If she makes a bigger stink about it you'd think the club, being more familiar with both R and the witness, would be more likely to shut her out than him. It would be in her best interest to review what really happened in her head and figure out how to avoid future collisions than to simply point fingers like a little kid- 'He did it!'. Hopefully she does so she can continue riding- and learning how to ride with -the group.

So......
will she be upset about (it?) Yes, if she's the sort to throw blame about, but only because she can feel justified.

and will she be justified? NO.

[Blueberry]

I think it was probably just an accident. One of those things, as they say. The question in my mind would be would another rider likely have gone down in the same circumstances - I think quite possibly yes. I'm really wondering whether his disability has anything at all to do with the wreck. It seems his disability wouldn't really be related. I think, if anyone, she would be angry at Dad since Dad was "chaperoning" him on the ride (not that it sounds like he needs it...). I think it would be inappropriate for you to have informed others. And no, I don't think she would be justified.

CA

[boy in a kilt]

You've said he rides well in a pack, which totally confirms what you've said about his glasses correcting his vision and that he has the mental capacity to handle himself.

I don't think it would be appropriate and I don't think you have the right. If she is particularly talkative, then as new riders join the group, he will become "that handicapped guy..."

If she figures it out on her own, fine.

[Eden]

It sounds like your new rider T did not understand when you all called "car up" that the group would be stopping for a one lane bridge, and she ran into the other fellow who was stopped or stopping. I doubt it was his fault - it could have been any rider and just happened to be him. Even if T was familiar with group ride etiquette she may have been unfamiliar with the route and did not expect the group to have to stop there when a car was coming.

[boy in a kilt]

Here's something you might want to think about. Anytime I have someone riding behind me and I need to slow down, I put my hand out, palm facing the person behind me. Sort of works like brake lights.

This seems to work even if I've never ridden with the person following me.

[NbyNW]

Accidents happen, and I don't think R's disability is really relevant here.

If you think about it, riding in a group is a highly complex social effort. If R's dad (who you say is very experienced) didn't feel confident that R could handle the social and communication aspect of the group ride (or this particular group ride), they would probably choose to spend their time and effort doing some other activity. Or they would be on a tandem with R as stoker.

If R's skills were such that he might be jeopardizing the safety of others in the group, I hope someone would have said something before something happened . . . but from your description it sounds like that wasn't the case.

Hopefully T doesn't make it an issue.

[Tuckervill]

I think the ride leader and R's dad tries to tell anyone who needs to know that his eyesight is poor. His dad usually keeps him in the back. I may just be slow on the uptake, but it wouldn't be hard to figure out he is differently- abled. He repeated a lot of things he said. When he rides beside you he says things like, "I'm keeping mine on 13." which refers to his speed and I thought it was a perfectly appropriate thing to say when he first said it to me, and I said, "me, too". It wasn't until after he said it a couple of times over the ride, like he didn't know he was talking to me again (I DO THAT TO PEOPLE, TOO!), that I began to wonder. It wasn't until his dad brought it up to me a few rides back that I knew for sure.

I would never tell anyone else he has poor eyesight unless an obvious explanation was needed in some circumstance.

I put my hand out when I'm stopping if I'm not using it to brake. The people who wrecked never would have seen my hand from where they were.

She was pretty mad, and I could tell she was feeling vulnerable because she didn't know anyone. I'm wondering if she's going to be madder, if she ever comes back to ride, if she still thinks he's at fault, if she finds out he's disabled. I wondered if the store or club had any liability, but I realize now that this is an at your own risk kind of thing. I wonder if she's mad enough, and her bike or knee is significantly damaged, to sue, and would she have a case?

I really wish I knew her so I could call and check on her. I guess I don't want her to ruin a really good thing, and I'd like for her to come back and ride with us and for all to be forgiven. I need closure, dang it!

Karen

[Tuckervill]

I think it was probably just an accident. One of those things, as they say. The question in my mind would be would another rider likely have gone down in the same circumstances - I think quite possibly yes. I'm really wondering whether his disability has anything at all to do with the wreck. It seems his disability wouldn't really be related. I think, if anyone, she would be angry at Dad since Dad was "chaperoning" him on the ride (not that it sounds like he needs it...). I think it would be inappropriate for you to have informed others. And no, I don't think she would be justified.

CA

I don't really think his disability had anything to do with it, either. But if I thought someone knocked me down and THEN I found out he had vision problems or perception problems that could have contributed, then I would be mad that no one told me. I'd definitely much rather be informed about it than be ignorant, because a vision problem could be putting me in danger. At least I could make a decision not to ride near him or ride at all. I think that's going to be her perspective. I don't expect her to take it out on him, the dad, yes. The ride leader, maybe.

I will admit that when I first found out about his vision issue--and I don't know the exact nature of it; maybe he can see near not far, bad peripheral or whatever--I at first questioned in my mind the wisdom of taking him on a group ride. But then, I had seen him ride well, so I never thought about it again until this incident, other than to be mindful when he was near me. I did notice that dad or M help guide him over bridges and particularly dicey patches.

I don't know. Maybe he didn't really see her, and maybe the witness saw her do something that would have otherwise not resulted in a wreck had the eyesight been good? I don't know. Like I said, I'd like for things to be as they are, and I hope she's okay, and I hope R and his dad feel they can come back, too.

Karen

[singletrackmind]

I see a mountain where there should be a molehill. Move along, business as usual.

[OakLeaf]

I've spent some time thinking about this one, as someone who is gratefully able-bodied but worked for many years with people with various disabilities.

I think if R has been riding with this group for some time, if they are experienced riders, and the rest of the group does not see his disability as something important to tell a new rider in the group, then it isn't.

If T believes otherwise, then it's only prejudice speaking.

I have to comment though: if everyone in the group was very familiar with the route and knew there was a narrow bridge upcoming, then "CAR UP" might've been enough. But normally, "CAR UP" means "stay on your side of the yellow line and be wary about the possibility of the car weaving into your lane." It does NOT mean "braking, stopping or slowing." If no one said or signalled anything other than "CAR UP" and everyone but T, the new rider, knew that that meant the group was stopping, then that might be your problem right there.

[bmccasland]

I think it is fair to let new memebers on smaller, ie club rides, that one of the riders has vision problems. But accidents happen. Just one of those things.

[smilingcat]

Hi Karen,

I really hate to say this the new person. But, it sounded like she ran into him from the rear. If that is the case, then she has no one to be upset with except herself. R's "disability" had nothing to do with the accident. And I would still call it an accident no more. It's not R's fault. The new girl should have left more of a safety zone. She isn't used to your groups riding dynamics.

Don't use R's disability as an excuse for the accident.

Smilingcat

[Tuckervill]

I think I left out the part where I next said, "STOP!" There was a pause after I yelled car up and before I said it. That sounds convenient at this point, but I really did yell stop, because my husband was just a few lengths behind me and I was thinking of him first. It was his first group ride ever, and I didn't want him to get hurt by running into me or going across the bridge. There was a gap between him and the bigger group, too.

T still doesn't know that R is disabled, as far as I know. She got in the car and left.

I have all the compassion in the world for people who need assistance or accommodation that I don't need. I think telling others that you have a vision impairment on a group ride is a safe and sane thing to do. I have a friend who is deaf in one ear, so she asks people to speak to her on the other side. What's the problem with that?

The other thing is, on a group ride, I will never substitute someone else's judgment of safety for my own. I don't cross streets until I see it's clear, no matter how many other people yell it. All that to say, T should have been paying attention. But shouldn't she be allowed to know all the factors she should be paying attention to?

Thanks for your thoughts, everyone. Your input helped me clarify my own.

Karen