Why am I still in academia?

[Dogmama]

He would not sign the letter on Friday, the implication being he had to assess if I'd done a good enough job. I asked if he could let me know by next Friday. He could not. I asked when he could let me know by. He couldn't tell me that either.

It is time for you to release the flying monkeys.

[Melalvai]

It is time for you to release the flying monkeys.

Ha ha! No doubt.
I talked to someone today who is peripherally involved in all this and he is going to talk to some people about some of these things. He assured me that my boss will sign the letter. At the end of the meeting he said "Don't worry about the money, focus on your research."

[Geonz]

Karma Slap Time.

Don't worry, eh? Welp, if that's possible, *don't*. It really is out of your control. HOly cow. Do whatever you can to keep some kind of psychic and physical equilibrium... like ride ... and remember you can always move to ILlinois - I have my house back!

[uforgot]

I've been following this thread from the beginning and I just want to weigh in with something. I don't think that people understand what kind of a town/school you may be moving from. Columbia is a terrific town to raise a family, and it consistently ranks high in national surveys as a good place to raise a family. I understand the fight to stay there. It would really be much better for your family to stay in Columbia as towns like that are few and far between!

Teaching - I guess I didn't know it had such a bad reputation. I kind of fell into it when I graduated from college and it turns out I wouldn't do anything else. I absolutely love it. Go with your gut. If things don't work out, why not? You are really going through the wringer here with all of this back and forth, handoff, I don't know stuff. It's been too long for you on this, and I'm just amazed at how insensitive everyone involved in this seems to be.

Keep us posted, and dump any time ya want!

[Melalvai]

Nothing new to report. I'm just confused about my reactions.
I was so relieved Monday when I found out that I am not at the mercy of my boss's whim, that I have some protection and that I'm not going to lose my fellowship. I thought my stomach problems, sleeplessness, overall stress would go away.

Partly it did, I was able to focus on experiments and get some actual work done. But my stomach is still plaguing me. Instead of sleepless, I'm sleeping a LOT, 10+ hours a couple nights this week. I'm depressed, anxious, nervous, neurotic, irritable...(my poor husband!) Still liable to burst into tears at little or no provocation.

I'm very disappointed. I want the stress reaction to be over, I want my life to return to "normal" (normal is only a cycle on the dishwasher). I suppose it'll take time. Or maybe once we actually get that letter, whether it comes from my boss or not.

[uforgot]

I was thinking of you yesterday. I was in Columbia and wondering how you were doing. Keep the updates coming. I hope this will be resolved soon! As the daughter of a breast cancer victim, I also want to thank you for your dedication!

[Melalvai]

It's time for another update, though I don't really have any news. My paper is inching ever so slowly to submission (that is, being submitted to a journal, not becoming submissive), which was my boss' final requirement for that letter I need so sorely.

The old lab is being packed up and sent north. Concerned that my supplies would get shipped with everything else, I contacted the prospective new boss and asked if I could have a little storage space. He promptly contacted my current boss who responded to me with "You must make a list, and you can't have anything that's not on that list!"

The request for a list of what I'm taking it reasonable. It is NOT reasonable to tack that on as yet another requirement for that bloody letter. This is entirely what I expected though. I would not be at all surprised if this is how he treats me through the entire month of June--"You've done A, B, and C as I requested, but now you have to do D, E, and F as well." And so on. Until I'm on P, Q and R and suddenly he's out of time.

Second, his tone was extremely offensive. He stopped just short of accusing me of plotting to steal his stuff. As if I'd want it. Most of his stuff is old and junk, we use equipment in other labs as much as we can. But his attitude makes me WANT to steal from him, just because I know I could get away with it (list or no list). This stupid list doesn't protect him or me. It's just a power ploy. A pathetic attempt to make me believe he controls anything about my future.

If I'm coming off a bit bitter and angry here, well, I am. I hope there will be slightly less stressful days ahead, if not contented or dare I say happier. He can't leave fast enough to suit me for sure.

If I were an optimistic soul, I might think the promised letter would materialize by the end of next week. Being a pessimistic cynical realist, I don't anticipate ever getting the letter from him.

[Warning: RANT!]
In a month's time no doubt I'll be crammed into yet another tiny overcrowded office that is chronically extremely hot and/or extremely cold, trying to get my work done with old malfunctioning equipment that no one knows how to use, starting new projects that are a ridiculous waste of time and taxpayer dollars and will bring us no closer to eradicating breast cancer but might further someone's career (not mine) ever so slightly. I'll be biting my tongue whenever my new boss opens his mouth because he'll make all kinds of grand promises--or any promises at all--which I won't believe. I wonder if it is worth it to put up with this so my husband can finish his degree. I so badly want to get out NOW, get a job teaching or in industry or in science writing, anything with a bit of stability and a bit less expensive nonsense. Heck, I'd take the expensive nonsense of some of the expense filtered its way into my own bank account.

[wannaduacentury]

It's time for another update, though I don't really have any news. My paper is inching ever so slowly to submission (that is, being submitted to a journal, not becoming submissive), which was my boss' final requirement for that letter I need so sorely.

The old lab is being packed up and sent north. Concerned that my supplies would get shipped with everything else, I contacted the prospective new boss and asked if I could have a little storage space. He promptly contacted my current boss who responded to me with "You must make a list, and you can't have anything that's not on that list!"

The request for a list of what I'm taking it reasonable. It is NOT reasonable to tack that on as yet another requirement for that bloody letter. This is entirely what I expected though. I would not be at all surprised if this is how he treats me through the entire month of June--"You've done A, B, and C as I requested, but now you have to do D, E, and F as well." And so on. Until I'm on P, Q and R and suddenly he's out of time.

Second, his tone was extremely offensive. He stopped just short of accusing me of plotting to steal his stuff. As if I'd want it. Most of his stuff is old and junk, we use equipment in other labs as much as we can. But his attitude makes me WANT to steal from him, just because I know I could get away with it (list or no list). This stupid list doesn't protect him or me. It's just a power ploy. A pathetic attempt to make me believe he controls anything about my future.

If I'm coming off a bit bitter and angry here, well, I am. I hope there will be slightly less stressful days ahead, if not contented or dare I say happier. He can't leave fast enough to suit me for sure.

If I were an optimistic soul, I might think the promised letter would materialize by the end of next week. Being a pessimistic cynical realist, I don't anticipate ever getting the letter from him.

[Warning: RANT!]
In a month's time no doubt I'll be crammed into yet another tiny overcrowded office that is chronically extremely hot and/or extremely cold, trying to get my work done with old malfunctioning equipment that no one knows how to use, starting new projects that are a ridiculous waste of time and taxpayer dollars and will bring us no closer to eradicating breast cancer but might further someone's career (not mine) ever so slightly. I'll be biting my tongue whenever my new boss opens his mouth because he'll make all kinds of grand promises--or any promises at all--which I won't believe. I wonder if it is worth it to put up with this so my husband can finish his degree. I so badly want to get out NOW, get a job teaching or in industry or in science writing, anything with a bit of stability and a bit less expensive nonsense. Heck, I'd take the expensive nonsense of some of the expense filtered its way into my own bank account.

I'm sorry you're having such a hard time. I've been following your story too, on and off. Sounds like your old boss is a mentor gone bad. Be glad you're not working for him anymore, get what necessary paperwork you can, and cut your losses. If you think you might want to teach or do something different for awhile, do it. Let your dh continue finishing his degree. Nothing is worth that much stress. ph.d. or not. When one door closes, another always opens. Have your resume' ready and always be ready to make a move. I hope everything works out for you. Best Wishes. Jennifer

[Dogmama]

The whole thing stinks. I don't suppose the department head would intervene on your behalf?

I'm so sorry you're having to go through this. I know how powerless it feels to deal with academia, tenure and a thousand hoops.

A side note - it's interesting that he is taking his equipment. Unless written otherwise, equipment purchased through a grant (I'm assuming that is how it was purchased) (1) stays with the originating institution or (2) is returned to the grantee. Lots of paperwork, including current value assessments, are usually generated, ad nauseum. It would be interesting to see if that is actually in place.....(trails off, whistling in the distance...)

Unless, of course, his equipment is trash, in which case the originating University is usually glad that it doesn't have to deal with disposal of same.

Hmmmm....

[Triskeliongirl]

I thought you told us that the Institution has to sign the letter, not your former boss. Remember the grant that pays your salary was issued to your institution, not your mentor, so the administrator in your grants managment office should sign the letter. The letter is just to request a change of mentor, correct?

It is typical for equipment to transfer with a PI, as long as the research grant that paid for it is also transferring institutions (at least in the biomedical sciences). The paperwork isn't complicated, its part of the paperwork for transferring a grant, which the PIs new institution gladly will prepare.

I think you need to stop feeling sorry for yourself. PIs move, he offered you a job, you didn't want it, so you need to live with your choices.

[Possegal]

I remember when I finished my PhD, much the worse for the wear. My brother who is a viet nam vet told the family I was the only one that could understand what he'd been through, as I too had just come home from war. Kidding of course, but seriously, it felt like hell. When I called my mother after my defense to tell her that yes, I was dr. (insert last name) she congratulated me and then said the best line "I'm going to go call your brothers and sisters and tell them, then I'm going to bed because these have been the longest 5 yrs of my life". I cracked up! I spent many many hours on the phone crying to my mother about quitting, calling her at 5AM as she was waking up, calling at lunch at work. When she passed about 7 years later, her coworkers came up to me at the funeral home and said "we feel like we went through graduate school with you". I said "I put my mother through hell those years". Now, you would think all things considered, they would have said "oh no you didn't". But the one looked at me with this rather sad smile and said "Yeah you did, but she sure was proud of you". And that still makes me cry.

Now, back on track, I do really feel your pain. I had hoped to go into acedemia but it just didn't work out that way for me. I ended up as a government scientist and I'm not sorry for the choices I made, it worked out for me quite well. I was lucky enough to have my phd advisor be like a second dad to me and though I've encountered some pieces of work in my career, none seem to compare to your soon to be former boss. I'm sorry that you are going through all of this, after all you have done to get where you are already!

[Dogmama]

I thought you told us that the Institution has to sign the letter, not your former boss. Remember the grant that pays your salary was issued to your institution, not your mentor, so the administrator in your grants managment office should sign the letter. The letter is just to request a change of mentor, correct?

It is typical for equipment to transfer with a PI, as long as the research grant that paid for it is also transferring institutions (at least in the biomedical sciences). The paperwork isn't complicated, its part of the paperwork for transferring a grant, which the PIs new institution gladly will prepare.

I think you need to stop feeling sorry for yourself. PIs move, he offered you a job, you didn't want it, so you need to live with your choices.

Who can issue a change of mentorship and how equipment transfers depends on the wording of the grant. I've seen it lots of different ways. Maybe you need to really scrutinize the contract. Contacting your grants management office is a great idea. Could save you lots of time & trouble.

[Duck on Wheels]

Why is anybody still in Academe? I guess because, when things run well, it's a great place to be. We get paid to pursue our curiosity, and to enthuse over our interests to students who more or less share them. And the pay's even pretty good once you get established. So it can be a good place to work. But the notion that academics are somehow more civilized than ordinary humans is counterproductive. We're as varied as any other branch of humanity in that regard (in fact, the status and autonomy may attract more than our fair share of sociopaths, but I doubt there's a reliable statistic on that). Anyhooo, the notion is counterproductive because, in part due to that presumed civilizing effect of education, we have a high degree of autonomy and weak administrations. In a crisis, that can be catastrophic.

Today I was involved in solving just such a crisis-turning-into-catastrophe. Two professors in neighboring departments here had, for some reason unknown to me, decided to dump their shared PhD fellow from the program. They may have other reasons, but the ones they've officially offered do not hold water. The student came to me since I was teaching one of her classes (Philosophy of Science for the Social Sciences). Luckily, she did well on her term paper for my class, so I was able to argue her case upward through the hierarchy, using my authority as instructor to defend her against her supervisors' claims that she wasn't competent to complete the degree. Without that "second opinion", the administration would never have dared to oppose her supervisors' assessment. Today the dean seems to have landed on a fair solution. If her head of department agrees, she'll be allowed to change supervisors. Whew! She and I and a sympathetic professor from her department all went out into the sunshine and ate ice cream bars to celebrate. I'm glad things sometimes get set right! I hope your case lands right side up as well!

Now back to grading exams (one of the more boring aspects of Academe ).

[Melalvai]

A side note - it's interesting that he is taking his equipment. Unless written otherwise, equipment purchased through a grant (I'm assuming that is how it was purchased) (1) stays with the originating institution or (2) is returned to the grantee. Lots of paperwork, including current value assessments, are usually generated, ad nauseum. It would be interesting to see if that is actually in place.....(trails off, whistling in the distance...)

He came from another university 5 years ago (5 yrs and 1 day to be precise...that is when he'll be vested with this uni and the next day he starts at ND). Some of his equip was purchased on grants that are moving with him, some was brought with him at the time, etc. I'm sure the dept didn't purchase anything of his so that is not moving with him.

[Melalvai]

I thought you told us that the Institution has to sign the letter, not your former boss.

They will write the letter if he doesn't. It is far preferable to get the letter from him if possible. That means I have to jump through the hoops he's designated. If he still doesn't sign the letter after I've done my part, by July 2, then the university will sign it. Refusing to do my part is tantamount to burning a bridge. The bridge may get burned in the end but it won't be by me.

I think you need to stop feeling sorry for yourself. PIs move, he offered you a job, you didn't want it, so you need to live with your choices.

Well, I can live with my choice, but it seems he can't live with my choice. Since he is continuing to harrass me with his "conditions" for this stupid letter. I'm not feeling sorry for myself. I'm really angry at him. And pretty pessimistic about the future which will likely contain more people just like him.

If it gets bad enough during the next 2 years, my husband will delay or give up his degree so I can start a new job somewhere else.